2019 Leon 2.0 TSI FR.. to buy or not to buy

[hedgehog_from_the_fog]

Hi, all! I am Mattias from Estonia, new here, and made an account to get your insight about the abovementioned 2.0 TSI FR that I'm thinking about getting as my new car.

A little background: I have a bit of history with hot-hatches, namely I owned a Focus ST220 Mk2.5 for years and loved it to bits. Then I made a sensible choice and moved to a brand new Mazda 3 2.0 89kw in 2017 (which I later had remapped to 123kw German version). While the Mazda was a looooot duller than the ST, I got used to it eventually, especially after the remap. I also really liked its durability and fuel consumption (got about 8 l/100km combined after the remap).

Now then, the Mazda is sold and I'm on the lookout for a new (used) estate car. I've been looking toward Leons (and Cupras) for a while.. just something about its lineage that draws me in. I recently did a test-drive with the 2018 AWD Cupra 300 and while it was an absolute riot to drive, the practicality trade-offs of having it as an everyday car made me hesitate.. I'm thinking that a daily city-commute would land the avg. consumption at around 12 l/100km.. a whipping 33% increase. Also the 19'' alloys, lower ride height (?), and extra expenses on maintenance..

So I thought about the FWD Cupra (290?) but also the 2.0 TSI FR, which, when fully specced, seems like a great deal. Still, at 140kw, I'm thinking if it might leave the dynamics of it a little bit wanting when reminiscing on the good old days of the ST220.

There's sadly no option of test-driving one as Estonian SEAT owners seem to be very pleased with their cars and there are hardly any higher engine spec models on sale.

So my questions are..
If I'm essentially looking for the perfect balance between practicality and fun-factor, is the 2.0 TSI that? Is it sporty?
What would the real-world fuel consumption be for the 2.0 TSI versus a 290 FWD Cupra? Also other running costs (maintenance wise)?
Does anyone have any experience with remapping the 2.0 TSI? Is it a good idea in terms of engine longevity? Would it require additional investments (swapped parts)?
(A chip-tuning company I've previously used states that 2.0 TSI can get to 190kw and 430Nm torque with stage 1.. probably pushing it? 170kw could already be nice I think)..

I'm planning to drive around ~15k a year.

All inputs are hugely welcome and thank you all in advance

 

[SuperV8]

Hi, all! I am Mattias from Estonia, new here, and made an account to get your insight about the abovementioned 2.0 TSI FR that I'm thinking about getting as my new car.

A little background: I have a bit of history with hot-hatches, namely I owned a Focus ST220 Mk2.5 for years and loved it to bits. Then I made a sensible choice and moved to a brand new Mazda 3 2.0 89kw in 2017 (which I later had remapped to 123kw German version). While the Mazda was a looooot duller than the ST, I got used to it eventually, especially after the remap. I also really liked its durability and fuel consumption (got about 8 l/100km combined after the remap).

Now then, the Mazda is sold and I'm on the lookout for a new (used) estate car. I've been looking toward Leons (and Cupras) for a while.. just something about its lineage that draws me in. I recently did a test-drive with the 2018 AWD Cupra 300 and while it was an absolute riot to drive, the practicality trade-offs of having it as an everyday car made me hesitate.. I'm thinking that a daily city-commute would land the avg. consumption at around 12 l/100km.. a whipping 33% increase. Also the 19'' alloys, lower ride height (?), and extra expenses on maintenance..

So I thought about the FWD Cupra (290?) but also the 2.0 TSI FR, which, when fully specced, seems like a great deal. Still, at 140kw, I'm thinking if it might leave the dynamics of it a little bit wanting when reminiscing on the good old days of the ST220.

There's sadly no option of test-driving one as Estonian SEAT owners seem to be very pleased with their cars and there are hardly any higher engine spec models on sale.

So my questions are..
If I'm essentially looking for the perfect balance between practicality and fun-factor, is the 2.0 TSI that? Is it sporty?
What would the real-world fuel consumption be for the 2.0 TSI versus a 290 FWD Cupra? Also other running costs (maintenance wise)?
Does anyone have any experience with remapping the 2.0 TSI? Is it a good idea in terms of engine longevity? Would it require additional investments (swapped parts)?
(A chip-tuning company I've previously used states that 2.0 TSI can get to 190kw and 430Nm torque with stage 1.. probably pushing it? 170kw could already be nice I think)..

I'm planning to drive around ~15k a year.

All inputs are hugely welcome and thank you all in advance

According to:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/seat/leon-2013/20-tsi-190-dsg

&

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/seat/leon-cupra-2014/20-tsi-290-dsg

The Real MPG site is made up of many owners MPG submissions of actual MPG figures. Personally I find it matches well with all my previous cars MPG potential.
The "Real MPG" for:
190tsi DSG is between 31 & 47.2
290tsi DSG is between 25.7 & 38.7

So the 190 has 'potential' for much better MPG 'if' driven carefully I would say.

The 190 although based on the EA888 engine is rather different to the Cupra engine - more optimised for efficiency than power.

Behind Audi’s new “rightsized” efficient EA888 Gen.3B family | E-Hike

e-hike.net

If ultimate power/speed/racing is your goal - no question - Cupra all the way.
If nippy & efficient everyday car than i'm sure the 190 will be great.

 

[hedgehog_from_the_fog]

According to:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/seat/leon-2013/20-tsi-190-dsg

&

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/seat/leon-cupra-2014/20-tsi-290-dsg

The Real MPG site is made up of many owners MPG submissions of actual MPG figures. Personally I find it matches well with all my previous cars MPG potential.
The "Real MPG" for:
190tsi DSG is between 31 & 47.2
290tsi DSG is between 25.7 & 38.7

So the 190 has 'potential' for much better MPG 'if' driven carefully I would say.

The 190 although based on the EA888 engine is rather different to the Cupra engine - more optimised for efficiency than power.

Behind Audi’s new “rightsized” efficient EA888 Gen.3B family | E-Hike

e-hike.net

If ultimate power/speed/racing is your goal - no question - Cupra all the way.
If nippy & efficient everyday car than i'm sure the 190 will be great.

Thanks for the reply! Do you think a "mild stage 1" would be a good idea for a low-milegae 190tsi? Would it require swapping any parts?
When I had the ST220 remapped and also the Mazda 3, it was just chip and go, nothing required.. although I did later swap the ST's clutch for the RS's one and the turbo overpressure valve for a more proper one.

 

[SuperV8]

Thanks for the reply! Do you think a "mild stage 1" would be a good idea for a low-milegae 190tsi? Would it require swapping any parts?
When I had the ST220 remapped and also the Mazda 3, it was just chip and go, nothing required.. although I did later swap the ST's clutch for the RS's one and the turbo overpressure valve for a more proper one.

I 'think' the Leon 190tsi is DSG only? in which case I wouldn't worry about a mild re-map as they can change the clamp pressure for the clutch packs.

No need to bolt anything on with a mild re-map.

I would just live with it before deciding 100% you need a re-map. I have a 184tdi and keep thinking of re-mapping it, but for an everyday/commuter car I rarely use all of the 184ps as it is so no real need for a re-map!

 

[Jazzjames]

Seeing as the 2.0 tsi 190 runs the Miller cycle and thus needs careful tuning compared to most otto cycle engines. I’d beware of that. It must be possible though…

Personally, I suggest you buy the car you want and then leave it alone regarding tuning. If it’s a weekend car and it doesn’t need to be reliable or have longevity, go nuts. Whether that’s the 190 FR or a Cupra, I don’t know.

I have the 1.8tsi (which was replaced by the 2.0 tsi 190) and I think it’s great and definitely has brisk enough performance considering its size and weight. It revs properly and doesn’t die up top, unlike my wife’s 1.5 tsi, so it’s fun enough on the right road. I have never driven the 2.0 tsi 190 but from what I’ve read they’re similar to my 1.8. Fuel economy is pretty decent on both, as it would also be in the Cupra (FWD) if you drive carefully.

 

[hedgehog_from_the_fog]

I talked to a local tuner company (same guys that remapped the Mazda) and they highly recommended this brand:

REVO Products for SEAT, Leon MK3 (5F 2012 - 2020) , 2.0 Litre Petrol, TSI (DKZA), 190ps 236lbft | Only REVO

Learn more about the REVO Performance products for your SEAT, Leon MK3 (5F 2012 - 2020) , 2.0 Litre Petrol, TSI (DKZA), 190ps 236lbft

www.onlyrevo.com

Seems pretty convincing tbh. They have a bunch of hw parts for low-key tuning as well.

I agree, though, if I should end up getting the 2.0 TSI, I'll definitely just drive around first and get a feel for the stock power.
I'm still super torn between the Cupra however.

 

[Yoshi]

Presume main dealers can tell if it's had a remap? Looking at a Leon ST 190 soon and wanted a remap to break the 250hp mark but it comes with 2 years seat warranty so I may have to wait 2 years. (Sorry to hijack).

Being big into VW I know Revo are excellent

 

[hedgehog_from_the_fog]

No worries, welcome

If it's anything like Mazda or Ford (my experience), they'll only learn it's remapped if they're specifically looking for it. Like if you've blown a part that will make them suspicious, for example. On routine maintenance they probably wouldn't check it, but I guess it'll be a gamble anyway.

The guys at VKM motors (where I had my cars tuned) said that it's also possible to revert the remap for a much smaller cost, so basically, to be safe you can get it re-stocked before the maintenance and then put it back again.. it's expensive but could work.

I'm also wondering, does the 190 TSI have any kind of an LSD type thing?

 

[Yoshi]

I'm also wondering, does the 190 TSI have any kind of an LSD type thing?

Just had a quick Google and it looks like they have an electronic one, not an actual mechanical LSD

 

[DEAN0]

Just had a quick Google and it looks like they have an electronic one, not an actual mechanical LSD

I believe the FR comes with XDS which uses the abs system and the brakes to stop the inside wheel spinning.

The Cupra comes with the VAQ diff - it is an electro/hydraulic adjusting limited slip differential.

 

[Lord_Nikkon]

I can believe that 2.0 TSi has XDS. I have one place very close to my home and when i was driving with me pre lift Leon (1.4 TSI CZSA) always i feel when car was about to run away. In 2.0 TSI is like a glued to road.

I love my 2.0. Last month i made trip from Cracow to Monachium and Kaprun (both ways 2500km) and avg consumption was around 6,5 l/100km (trunk full plus wife and kid). Constantly riding on highways (130-140km/h). Since i bought this car i'm really satisfied. Problem is DSG which working (due to WLTP) like stupid. I fixed it by TVS program. Now it's perfect. My parents had Leon with 1.5 TSI (changed because the want SUV for easier user for older people) and outside the city myc ar was consuming less gas. In city 1.5 has a little more sens, but difference was tiny. I was looking for new car but because this 2.0TSI is great i can justified (even to myself) such a shopping. I made 40 000 km and no issues at all.

 

[MihaiD]

I can believe that 2.0 TSi has XDS. I have one place very close to my home and when i was driving with me pre lift Leon (1.4 TSI CZSA) always i feel when car was about to run away. In 2.0 TSI is like a glued to road.

I love my 2.0. Last month i made trip from Cracow to Monachium and Kaprun (both ways 2500km) and avg consumption was around 6,5 l/100km (trunk full plus wife and kid). Constantly riding on highways (130-140km/h). Since i bought this car i'm really satisfied. Problem is DSG which working (due to WLTP) like stupid. I fixed it by TVS program. Now it's perfect. My parents had Leon with 1.5 TSI (changed because the want SUV for easier user for older people) and outside the city myc ar was consuming less gas. In city 1.5 has a little more sens, but difference was tiny. I was looking for new car but because this 2.0TSI is great i can justified (even to myself) such a shopping. I made 40 000 km and no issues at all.

Hello, what stage did you pick from TVS? have the same engine and i dont really like the way that the gearbox is performing

 

[hedgehog_from_the_fog]

I just did a test-drive with a 2018 1.4 TSI FR and it gave me a few questions.
1. The digital cockpit of the 1.4 TSI didn't seem to have many different dial options, just the basic one with full-arc dials.
I've test-driven the Cupra with a digital cockpit and that one had many different dial views, like the half-arc dials with the map in the middle and I believe also one with just a full-arc tachometer in the middle. Does the 2.0TSI FR have this full-featured digital cockpit or a more limited one?
2. The 1.4 TSI car did have a driving mode selector for Eco, Standard, Sport, and Individual. However, I didn't see a chassis control option in the Individual tab - there were only options to switch the steering and transmission by Sport/Normal. Does the 2.0TSI FR have actual dynamic chassis control? As in, does the Sport mode actually stiffen the suspension?

Cheers!

 

[Lord_Nikkon]

Hello, what stage did you pick from TVS? have the same engine and i dont really like the way that the gearbox is performing

TVS Drivability