Any 1600?

[Rígachrud]

Howdy all...

due to regulation and class changes in Irish Rallying I am looking to swap the 2.0l 16v out of my cupra (ex-cup) rally car and replace with a 1600 16v..


Anyone know any good engines? I discussed it with local competition engine builder, who reckons any of the latest VAG 1600 motors are poo for tuning... (unless you're going to spend huge money on a s1600 motor)

As I've had a lot of Honda experioence on my last few rally cars I'm kinda leaning in that direction...

Thinking of running bike throttle bodied with a DTA40...

Any idears?

Should be selling what I take out...
2.0l 16v cup engine, quaife LSD for 02a gearbox, injection, loom, cup competition exhaust manifold and system (inc 2x Cats), 2x ECUs, etc...

Greg

 

[m0rk]

Do the regs allow any 1.6?

Lupo GTI engine on TB's & cams etc would do 170bhp+, and you should be able to retain your 'box and engine mounts etc.

Honda engines - don't the turn the wrong way round? and would need a lot of fabrication?

Just thinking about the ease of replacing OE parts mid rally (driveshaft etc) rather than having to take spare custom ones.

 

[Rígachrud]

Yeah according to the "Green Book" (our version of the blue book) any engine is allowed once it is by any car manufacturuer..

not that well up on vag engines ets.. is the lupo gti a good reliable (strong) engine? 170+bhp would be ok, but the important thing for rallying is to get the maximum power in at as low a rev as possible, thus increasing torque...

Honda rotation is not a problem once you use the honda box, i was thinking of B16a2 with S4c box... yeah they use as much oil as a two stroke... but with the TBs and DTA and a set of piper cams you can get 185 coming in at about 7500 rpm, giving 130 ft/lbs of torque, which is decent.. takes a lot of tinkering with the ecu to sort out vtec etc... but bang for buck is pretty good...

retaining my own box is not a concern as I managed to blow the quaife 6speed (not even casing is salvagable).. 4000 Euro repair bill.. This is one of the reasons why I think it's time for a change...

 

[Jamin Berry]

I thought quife boxes came with an endless warrenty

 

[Rígachrud]

But they never break, so warranty isn't needed..

For some reason it managed to jam in 2nd and 6th at the same time... with catastrophic results..

 

[Ben16v]

You mention that power needs to come in as low down as possible. With this in mind would an 8v be of more benefit to you?

Also are you allowed to mix engines, maybe a high compression 1.6 16v lupo engine with an ABF head, (not looked into in massivly but may work)

Just an idea at this time, dont know if its something you can use or do but would give good power gains.

Sounds like you want something reliable and quick. What about a sleeved mk2 golf KR bottom end, or even 20vT. Dont know a whole lot about sleeving (i know it can be done to affectivly reduce engine capacity) and if anyone could do it to that size of reduction but may be worth looking into.

I wouldnt personally say the vtec was the way forward as revs far to high which wouldnt be much use as you said you needed low down power.

Just ideas and im probably way out of my league but hopefully something to look into?

 

[Rígachrud]

The reason I considered Honda was coz my last rally car had a honda engine, and I managed to amount alot of parts and experience... She was a JDM Sir in a mini... loads of fun.. out to 207bhp.. only trouble is with such high revs (upto 9500) it only had 140ft/lbs of torque... But as I said I have experience and spare... oh I miss her....

Have found a decent 1600 16v lupo GTi engine and box.. just argueing over price at the moment.. so it looks like I'll go down this route...

Thanks to all for your suggestions (especially m0rk as I didn't even know the Lupo came in a GTi)

I'm not that well up on VAG engines, as I rallied minis for years, before moving on to the honda-mini... so here's to the learning curve...

Thanks again...

 

[Roelích]

I want the box/diff!

 

[Roelích]

Just diff actually, having read this!

 

[Cupra Kid]

why not just buy a lupo and start again? seems a shame to turn a decent specced MK2 rally car into a 1.6

 

[Rígachrud]

why not just buy a lupo and start again? seems a shame to turn a decent specced MK2 rally car into a 1.6

Would you feel safe in a lupo doing 120mph? coz I wouldn't... lol...

The 2.0l engine is 155bhp, but once I'm finished with the 1600 it should be about 175...

Cams, Yammy R1 throttle bodies, some head work and a DTA ecu...

If I stay in the 2.0l class I'll be up against Mk2 Escorts running 25k of millington diamond engines... Fup that... 1600 it is...

Buying an ex-seat cup car (about 6-8 grand) and modifying it is way cheaper than trying to build one...

Quaife 6 speed with LSD 5.5k
4x proflex coilovers 4k
Custom cage WRC rollcage fitted 1.5k
seats, harnesses and extinguishers 1.5k
AP group A brakes (calipers and rotors) 1k
carbon and kevlar bits 1.5k
Total self build to same spec 15k (excluding labour)