AUQ engine - baffled sump and other oil system upgrades

[Nautilus]

Hello everyone

I'm interested to upgrade in the near future the oiling system on my LFR, to aid in engine lubrication during sharp corners and first and foremost for the protection of the engine bearings. There may be the last set of mechanical mods to be performed on the engine.

It will take a few months to save the money needed, so it's a long or medium term project.

The car's engine mods and performance are listed here:

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=246139

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2896139&postcount=40

Current state of the car:

- ~73 000 kms from new (~45 000 miles);
- new exhaust valves due to broken cambelt incident;
- new piston rings fitted during the same overhaul;
- Pipercross oil catch filter (not tank), but it barely catches a few cc's of oil;
- no visible signs of oil consumption.

Current plans:

- Baffled (and aluminum-plate-armored) oil sump from Jabbasport or Backdraft Motorsport.
- Crank scraper from Rosten Performance.
- Fluidampr.

Crank scrapers are said to allow better engine performance and oil flow during continuous high rpm, due to less of a mass to be spun by the engine. An ideal construction would be a scraper with Teflon blades, but I've not found any for the 06A blocks, the easiest to get option is the steel-bladed scraper from Rosten Performance.

Which disadvantages may I get from fitting together a baffled sump and a steel bladed scraper? May the scraper, even if properly fit, hit or grind the spinning crankshaft sometimes in the future? May the valves of the baffled sump break down and block the flow of oil to the oil pump? Does the pump experience greater effort in sucking the oil from a baffled sump compared to a classic open sump?

And, even if all fit together perfectly, how would it run compared to a dry sump engine (which on a 1.8T is outside the realm of possibility due to cost)?

Thank you,

~Nautilus

 

[rk696]

I don't think there's any disadvantages to fitting a baffled sump.

While you've go the sump off though, replace the pickup pipe. It costs around £15 and is prone to blocking up, causing oil starvation issues.

 

[Nautilus]

Just fitted the crank scraper from Rosten Performance.

Actual manufacturer, as etched in the scraper itself, is Ishihara-Johnson.

Scraper is the type for 06A blocks from VAG, as shown here:

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/VW-ALH-DUAL-G.jpg

As we see, the "scraper" is actually a "baffle", both horizontal and vertical, to stop oil sloshing in the sump around the crankshaft in either direction.

Fitting guidelines from Rosten Performance website told it had to be fitted on the oil sump bolts, with care to avoid interference with main bearing cap bolts, crankshaft throws, connecting rods and other parts of the engine, with a clearance of at least 1mm from all moving parts.

Ishihara-Johnson also makes a crank scraper for older 058 blocks, which fits in the same manner, as shown here:

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/DSCF0202.JPG

As we see, and it had already been seen during fitment, play between moving parts and the scraper is much more than 1mm, maybe in the 3-5 mm range.

When fitted by just silicone gasket, play between horizontal (middle and upstroke) scraper blades and crankshaft throws was in the 5mm range, tightening the oil sump bolts brought it in the 3mm range.

Play between upwards-slanted scraper blades (to sweep the crankshaft on downstroke) was very large, over 10mm, before tightening of the bolts, after tightening it could not be seen, but it might have still a few mms of gap.

(By comparison, the VR6 scraper made by the same manufacturer was a much tighter fit, and it fit on the much stronger main bearing cap bolts.)

Most of the scrapers fitted on sump bolts which could be seen on Ishihara-Johnson website have similar gaps, only the Teflon scrapers and scrapers which fit directly on main bearing cap bolts have smaller gaps.

Judging from the rather loose spaces around scraper blades, there is hardly much "scraping" done here, but we are optimistic

~Nautilus

 

[Ronin225]

Will you be looking into an aftermarket oil cooler to go with this?

 

[Nautilus]

Not necessarily, I think.

After all, the water-based stock oil cooler of the 1.8T should keep oil temperatures in the same range as the water, about 90 degrees C, with some degree of success.

A radiator-type oil cooler may cool much better if exposed to air, but which control do I have on it? It may cool too much, or too little. Street is not a racetrack, where air temperature, rpm, speeds and engine loads can be predicted from the start.

Constant operating temperature is much more sensible.

To get the engine quickly to operating temperature and keep it so for most of the time I've devised my little experiment here:

Leon Mk I coolant tank

I took interest in the scrapers a few months ago rather due to their "baffle" function than "scraping" function - which I don't trust too much.

The idea had been suggested by an American fellow who experimented with a Chevy 350 in a boat: a wet-sump engine, while having a windage tray in the sump and a crank scraper to guide oil and stop sloshing around, turns into a sort of "gravity scavenged dry-sump", by separating the sump into two "floors", a wet lower floor and a dry upper floor where crankshaft runs.

Many Japanese performance engines and sumps are like this: a horizontal tray separating the sump into two floors, with a hole through which oil-pump pickup runs and a few slits to drain back returned oil. Nissan VG30DETT and Subaru boxers are like this, S2000 engines have this kind of sump (they call it "anti-G sump") available aftermarket.

1.8Ts have windage trays and strong oil pumps, but they do also have some reputation of pushing oil upwards into the return holes when braking fiercely.

~Nautilus

 

[rs-tuner]

Will you be looking into an aftermarket oil cooler to go with this?

I will be suprised if you need an aftermarket oil cooler.

 

[Ronin225]

When pushed hard for short blasts i have seen 110 degree oil temps
Ape's mapped LCR has seen about 140 degrees
You can get a thermostatic sandwich plate so oil is only fed through rad when hits certain temps

 

[Nautilus]

Seeing the dismantled oil sump and how the crank scraper fits, there is no apparent way to fit also a baffled and valved sump. It's either scraper + OEM plastic tray, or no scraper but baffled sump.

From this picture, the horizontal plates of the sump are "the scraper" and the vertical plates are "the baffle":

While in this picture, the IJ crank scraper and OEM plastic tray achieve the same "baffle" effect (vertical and horizontal):

So an unnecessary expense should be cancelled

By now, the car has a few thousands of miles on IJ crank scraper, with no ill effects.

The next step should be a Fluidampr (combined with a Stage 2 remap) to protect the engine moving parts (read: mostly the rods) from the ill effects of torque spikes. No more mechanical mods are planned for the near future.

~Nautilus

 

[Nautilus]

Also changed the stock oil filter (MANN 719/30) for a larger oil filter (MANN 940/25).

Stock filter is 76x123mm (roughly 0.55 liters), larger filter is 93x142mm (about 0.965 liters). Price is the same. Mating surfaces are identical.

The real need for it stood in the fact each oil change there was spare oil remaining from a Castrol 5 liter bottle, or there was too little oil inside the sump if a 4 liter bottle was used. Now a 5 liter fits perfectly.

As the oil filter in a transverse 1.8T is hanging on the side of the block and oil gets in or out only pushed by the pump, it's like having a separate oil tank, it does not influence the oil level in the sump. (This is why oil filter is filled with oil before mounting, otherwise it would take time before the pump draws from the sump and pushes oil in.)

Advantages:

- Oil goes into the filter through the water-oil heat exchanger, so by having a larger filter there is a larger amount of cooled and filtered oil going back into the sump -> slightly better cooling of the sump oil;
- About 50% larger filtering surface -> better filtering.

Usually the large filter is swapped by Transporter TDI people for the smaller one to fit a 4 liter bottle in the TDI's sump. I've done the opposite

~Nautilus

 

[ibizacupra]

the volume of cooled oil is determined by oil flow not filter capacity tho surely? whatever passes through it passes through it at the pumped rate, which is rpm dependand