Brake Setups

[Ape]

Eh up folks,

In the summer I managed to warp my discs, boil fluid etc. The setup is:
Badger 5 Grooved Discs
Ferodo DS2500 Pads
Dot 5.1 Fluid

Cue wobbly steering wheel under braking etc, all good fun. This has subsided now as I've either worn the warped area out or by some miracle, kept the pads on the warped part and straigtened it out again (yeah right!).

Rears are new pads and discs so no problems there.

I found that during heavy track use (Silverstone, Castle Combe and the Nurburgring) I'd get fade around halfway through a session (or 3/4 of the way around the 'Ring) and a spongy pedal.

Are there any track goers who have a more suited setup? I'm not doubting the Badger 5 discs and would get them again come replacement time (which is soon). I think the pads and fluid is more the issue.

For the next setup I'm thinking:
Goodridge Braided Lines
Ferodo DS3000 pads (or EBC Redstuff?)
Badger 5 Discs
5.1 Brake Fluid (unless there's something better?)

The other option is a 2 piece setup but I've not quite got the moolah for that yet, so any suggestions using the standard calipers would be grand

 

[Ronin225]

I run RBF600 fluid but they now do a 660 which is meant to be improved
I run Bills 2 piece 330mm setup as only the initial outlay is big but cheaper when they need doing again
I also have the stainless braided lines up front too
I think you may have even seen them as i came to a meet in kiddi once
edit. Forgot to say these are coupled with DS2500 but if it was used more on the track i might opt for DS3000

 

[Ape]

Cheers Ronin, do you use yours for fast road use more than track then?

 

[Ronin225]

Been planning on tracking it for a while but concentrating on getting it properly specced so i dont find it struggling
It probably could go now but need to save some money up to do one
Currently a fast road setup but also everyday drive too
Let me know if your planning a trackday in about 3-4 months and i'll see if i can make it
But 2 piece maybe expensive but cheaper in long run and when warm are ferocious

 

[Ronin225]

Just a taster

 

[Ape]

Damn, that's just about got me sold! How much did you pay if you don't mind my asking (pm me if you like). One bottle of the fluid enough? Can't remember the capacity of the system.

I'll be doing the 'Ring in April, was also doing Castle Combe beforehand but don't want to risk it as if I bend it I won't have time between the two to fix it. I'll be looking for open pit days I think in the summer. Bit dearer but more fun and relaxed.

 

[Ronin225]

Was quite a while ago so prices may have changed but about £700
Comprised of
2x stainless braided lines
2x alloy bells
2x Rotors
2x spacer brackets (323mm upto 330mm)
set of DS2500
2x boottles of RBF600
Need 2 bottles to do a full flush
Might PM you in afew months then see if i can tag along

 

[GREY 225]

Have you thought about running some ducting from the fogs to the discs area to help with cooling. Any brake system is prone to fade with enough abuse but 2 piece is the best upgrade regarding discs, there lighter too and also have proper directional cooling vanes. They are expensive but then so are warped discs that need replacing.

 

[Ape]

I've never really been a believer of ducting in all honesty. Never been convinced with using them for an open cone filter, and with directing them at brakes I've always wondered that if you're directing air, you can also direct water, which wouldn't bode well for brakes. I'm not meaning to shout it down, no ones ever explained with proof of the advantages if you see what I mean?

 

[GREY 225]

Well i havent done it myself yet but was working on the principle of motorsport racing were they have ducts to the front brakes to direct air to the inner side of brake disc. Going down 2 piece route is best option for track abuse but its still possible to damage these brakes too with enough track use. They are night & day better than solid discs though but put aside £700 for them plus new pads £110.
I went for AP racing mainly because i dealt with jabba who supplied them. They are expensive but come replacement time you just replace the rotor & bolts.
But if you are giving your brakes some stick id look at extra cooling first, just my opinion though.

 

[MrBen2k7]

If there isn't on already, or if its possible... Would a brake fluid cooler help?

 

[Ape]

Well i havent done it myself yet but was working on the principle of motorsport racing were they have ducts to the front brakes to direct air to the inner side of brake disc. Going down 2 piece route is best option for track abuse but its still possible to damage these brakes too with enough track use. They are night & day better than solid discs though but put aside £700 for them plus new pads £110.
I went for AP racing mainly because i dealt with jabba who supplied them. They are expensive but come replacement time you just replace the rotor & bolts.
But if you are giving your brakes some stick id look at extra cooling first, just my opinion though.

I see where you're coming from, mine will be used on the road too. Luckily the racers on the track don't have puddles to deal with but I know what you mean. I paid £130 for the pads last time so I know what to expect there, the initial outlay is dear but long term it balances out (that's what I'm going to tell myself anyway!).

If there isn't on already, or if its possible... Would a brake fluid cooler help?

I'm not sure if there is one available, not really looked but not a bad idea.

Brakes need heat to work, its the converting of kinetic energy into heat that slows us down, but that heat needs to be removed quickly to prevent fade / failure. Bit of a balancing act, need to do some more research I think as brakes aren't something I want to mess up. I still think the 2 piece setup is the way to go though.

 

[rs-tuner]

This is what I run k sport 8 pots with 356 mm discs £750 plus the vat

 

[Ape]

8 Pots? What sort of power have you got that warrants those

What is the surface area of the 8 pot calipers compared to the standard 4 pots? Have you had to upgrade the master cylinder / servo's etc?

I think it's a bit overkill for what I need, looks fantastic, but I'd be interested to see the additional stopping power over the AP / Badger 5 330mm combo

 

[Willie]

I've got the Badger 5 2 piece 330mm discs.
I have Goodridge braided lines, RBF600 fluid and have run both DS 2500 & 3000 pads.
TBH for my home track I have never found the limits to this system, thankfully.
The limit to my braking is how hard I want to brake and available traction. For me this is good enough but I understand the ring would be a proper test but 20 minutes on Knockhill at maximum attack doesn't fade this set up.
Go for the DS 3000 over the 2500. They can be very squeaky but on the track you'll see why the squeaking is livable with.
The K sport set up above does look good but the Badger 5 set up has been proven by me and others to be great.

 

[rs-tuner]

8 Pots? What sort of power have you got that warrants those

What is the surface area of the 8 pot calipers compared to the standard 4 pots? Have you had to upgrade the master cylinder / servo's etc?

I think it's a bit overkill for what I need, looks fantastic, but I'd be interested to see the additional stopping power over the AP / Badger 5 330mm combo

I am running standard power at the moment

My car is a cupra not a cupra r so the brakes needed doing asap. The pad area is slightly bigger then the brembo 4pots but the benefit is bigger discs which create more stopping power.which you can upgrade for ap items also many manufacture's create pads for them as well

You can never have enough brakes IMO

 

[Ape]

I agree there about having enough stopping power. Did you have to change other parts of the brake system to prevent excess travel pedal etc?

I'm not sure what the maximum disc size would be for standard brembo's, I'm guessing 330mm

 

[Willie]

The standard set up can only manage 325mm, the 330mm set up requires a caliper spacer.

 

[Ape]

Ah right, id be getting the calliper spacers as well, so would 330mm the max with spacers? Or could you get bigger without changing callipers?

 

[Ronin225]

This is something i plan to do when my rotors wear out, i will speak to Bill and maybe pop down and trial some
Looking at the room in between caliper and wheel i think it could go upto 350mm