DSG vs Manual really same 0-60 ttimes?

[SteveFR]

1.8 TSI 180

1th gear ratio:3,78:1
2th gear ratio:2,06:1
3th gear ratio:1,45:1
4th gear ratio:1,11:1
5th gear ratio:0,88:1
6th gear ratio:0,73:1

DSG
1th gear ratio:3,76:1
2th gear ratio:2,27:1
3th gear ratio:1,53:1
4th gear ratio:1,12:1
5th gear ratio:1,18:1
6th gear ratio:0,95:1
7th gear ratio:0,80:1

this is from cars-data dot com, could not find it for 1.4 150 DSG, so went for 1.8. I assume they have the same ratio

edit: yes, all petrol seems to have same ratios, just found the 1.2 105 BPH ratios are the same as 1.8

Looks like SEAT must've modified things slightly, as according to the latest brochure:

Technical data for 180PS TSi with 5 doors: DSG v Manual

1st gear ratio: 3.765 v 3.778
2nd gear ratio: 2.273 v 2.118
3rd gear ratio: 1.531 v 1.360
4th gear ratio: 1.133 v 1.029
5th gear ratio: 1.176 v 0.857
6t gear ratioh: 0.956 v 0.725
7th gear ratio: 0.795

MPH at 1000rpm in 4th: 8.9 v 11.9
MPH at 1000rpm in 5th: 11.7 v 14.3
MPH at 1000rpm in 6th: 14.5 v 16.7
MPH at 1000rpm in 7th: 17.4

Top Speed (mph): 139 v 140
0-62mpg (seconds): 7.2 v 7.5

Technical data for 150PS TSi with 5 doors: DSG v Manual

1st gear ratio: 3.500 v 3.778
2nd gear ratio: 2.087 v 2.118
3rd gear ratio: 1.343 v 1.360
4th gear ratio: 0.933 v 1.029
5th gear ratio: 0.974 v 0.857
6th gear ratio: 0.778 v 0.733
7th gear ratio: 0.653

MPH at 1000rpm in 4th: 8.9 v 12.0
MPH at 1000rpm in 5th: 11.7 v 14.4
MPH at 1000rpm in 6th: 14.5 v 16.8
MPH at 1000rpm in 7th: 17.4

Top Speed (mph): 134 v 134
0-62mpg (seconds): 8.0 v 8.0

Technical data for 115PS TSi with 5 doors: DSG v Manual

1st gear ratio: 3.756 v 3.769
2nd gear ratio: 2.273 v 1.955
3rd gear ratio: 1.531 v 1.281
4th gear ratio: 1.122 v 1.029
5th gear ratio: 1.176 v 0.973
6th gear ratio: 0.951 v 0.642
7th gear ratio: 0.795

MPH at 1000rpm in 4th: 9.0 v 11.4
MPH at 1000rpm in 5th: 11.8 v 14.2
MPH at 1000rpm in 6th: 14.6 v 17.1
MPH at 1000rpm in 7th: 17.5

Top Speed (mph): 126 v 123
0-62mpg (seconds): 9.6 v 10.0

 

[SteveFR]

I think most people will struggle to do the quoted 0-60 in a manual. The opposite is true of the DSG - most of the quoted figures are on the conservative side.

In real terms, though (ignoring 0-60) a manual feels faster to me. Probably because it always does what you want where even the best autos will sometimes catch you by surprise.

My current car is a DSG. Fairly sure I'll go back to a manual - when the world goes electric we won't have a choice!

My previous car was a manual turbo-diesel and even though I know it's much slower than my current 1.8 TSi DSG it did kinda feel faster in some ways.

As my current car accelerates like a locomotive, very smoothly and effortlessly upto 70mph but (unless I'm overtaking someone) it's not really quite as entertaining as that surge of power I got when I manually changed gear and the turbocharger kicked in.

However I'm just far too lazy to go back to a manual tbh. Guess I'll have to save up for the Cupra (or equivalent) next time so it accelerates rapidly enough to pin me to the seat!

 

[KXL]

Well on the New Ibiza 1.0 TSI DSG 115PS, can't remember if it was carwow or carkeys on youtube....the reviewer guy did a 0-100km sprint, spec sheet states 9.3 secs or thereabouts.

He ran it in flat 8 secs.... the rumours must be true then, this engine outputs a lot more than it really is on paper.... (1 dyno graph in Brazil for 1.0 TSI showed stock it ouput 134hp).

 

[Luckypants]

Looks like SEAT must've modified things slightly, as according to the latest brochure:

Technical data for 180PS TSi with 5 doors: DSG v Manual

1st gear ratio: 3.765 v 3.778
2nd gear ratio: 2.273 v 2.118
3rd gear ratio: 1.531 v 1.360
4th gear ratio: 1.133 v 1.029
5th gear ratio: 1.176 v 0.857
6t gear ratioh: 0.956 v 0.725
7th gear ratio: 0.795

MPH at 1000rpm in 4th: 8.9 v 11.9
MPH at 1000rpm in 5th: 11.7 v 14.3
MPH at 1000rpm in 6th: 14.5 v 16.7
MPH at 1000rpm in 7th: 17.4

Top Speed (mph): 139 v 140
0-62mpg (seconds): 7.2 v 7.5

Technical data for 150PS TSi with 5 doors: DSG v Manual

1st gear ratio: 3.500 v 3.778
2nd gear ratio: 2.087 v 2.118
3rd gear ratio: 1.343 v 1.360
4th gear ratio: 0.933 v 1.029
5th gear ratio: 0.974 v 0.857
6th gear ratio: 0.778 v 0.733
7th gear ratio: 0.653

MPH at 1000rpm in 4th: 8.9 v 12.0
MPH at 1000rpm in 5th: 11.7 v 14.4
MPH at 1000rpm in 6th: 14.5 v 16.8
MPH at 1000rpm in 7th: 17.4

Top Speed (mph): 134 v 134
0-62mpg (seconds): 8.0 v 8.0

Technical data for 115PS TSi with 5 doors: DSG v Manual

1st gear ratio: 3.756 v 3.769
2nd gear ratio: 2.273 v 1.955
3rd gear ratio: 1.531 v 1.281
4th gear ratio: 1.122 v 1.029
5th gear ratio: 1.176 v 0.973
6th gear ratio: 0.951 v 0.642
7th gear ratio: 0.795

MPH at 1000rpm in 4th: 9.0 v 11.4
MPH at 1000rpm in 5th: 11.8 v 14.2
MPH at 1000rpm in 6th: 14.6 v 17.1
MPH at 1000rpm in 7th: 17.5

Top Speed (mph): 126 v 123
0-62mpg (seconds): 9.6 v 10.0

I think everyone is overlooking the effect of the final drive ratio (in the diff) for these cars. That is where there may be the difference in acceleration may lie.

manual top gear has a ratio of 0.642 and 17.1mph/1000rpm
DSG top gear has ration of 0.795 and 17.5mph/1000rpm.

So even though 6th on the manual has taller gearing than 7th on the DSG, a manual does less mph/1000rpm. This indicates to me that the final drive in the DSG is significantly different from that in a manual.

 

[SteveFR]

I think everyone is overlooking the effect of the final drive ratio (in the diff) for these cars. That is where there may be the difference in acceleration may lie.

manual top gear has a ratio of 0.642 and 17.1mph/1000rpm
DSG top gear has ration of 0.795 and 17.5mph/1000rpm.

So even though 6th on the manual has taller gearing than 7th on the DSG, a manual does less mph/1000rpm. This indicates to me that the final drive in the DSG is significantly different from that in a manual.

Ah, good point about the final drive ratio. As I was wondering what the group ratios referred to at the bottom of the technical data page but now the penny has dropped!

Technical data for 180PS TSi with 5 doors: DSG v Manual

Group 1 ratio: 4.438 v 3.647
Group 2 ratio: 3.227
Group 3 ratio: 4.176

Technical data for 150PS TSi with 5 doors: DSG v Manual

Group 1 ratio: 4.800 v 3.647
Group 2 ratio: 3.429
Group 3 ratio: 4.500

Technical data for 115PS TSi with 5 doors: DSG v Manual

Group 1 ratio: 4.438 v 4.056
Group 2 ratio: 3.227
Group 3 ratio: 4.176

I gather that a dual-clutch gearbox has 2 final drive gears but I'm not quite sure what "Group 3" refers to. As the figure is identical to the Reverse gear ratio for the 115PS and 180PS but R is listed as 3.721 for the 150PS

 

[garybuttle]

17.4 MPH per 1000 revs equates to 4023 revs at 70 MPH surely they are not that lower geared

 

[Kryton]

So is the conclusion for the earlier cars, all manuals are the same. Got a dq200 & keep getting torque lock out so trying to work out what manuals fit