Four Wheel Drive? (VZ2 310)

[Korefan]

Unfortunately, you're right about driving confidence. The traditional FWD car fares better. Compared to the Subaru, where drifting and skidding control comes almost as easily as in games, the Formentor just falls. However, it was not designed for this, the purpose of the drive is to maintain no slippage. The VZ5 version has a different drive and a special mode, but I haven't personally tested it. Mastering the slides in the formentor needs practice, a large, really large, empty square, practice, and practice . First, we turn off ESP with a long press and in my case when learning, mountain mode was better, later it did not matter. The main problem of the formentor is sometimes it loss of the rear axle slip, unexpectedly, even though we are already doing the fifth lap of the barrel rollover almost like Ken Block and then the rear suddenly loses the slip and the car goes wide out in front. Adding gas at this point only worsens the situation, the rear axle doesn't rotate, and we only add energy to the formentor and it leaves by the front axle even wider. This carries a high risk of losing control in narrow spaces. Keep it in mind. Unfortunately, the formentor also does not have a handbrake, which in such a situation would put the rear in rotation again, and also attempts to operate the brake and accelerator at the same time are also not provided by the control system, it cuts the power imidietly. I suggest practicing, but the lack of control over slipping is terrifying, large empty squares are only place for practicing and only places for performances because in a limited space, our mastery can end up with an immortal viral content on YT. Regards. By the way, i tunned my VZ version from stock 310PS to 411BHP. Here

I think later it will be possible to tune haldex to work 50/50 pernament, but it is still haldex.
If it will be overheated - rear end stops to spin. I'm not sure how easily it can be overheated, but still there is such possibility ;-)

 

[rsmiech]

Such a capable engine this GEN4. Amazing.

Did you measured the 0-100 and 100-200 by any chance?

100-200 around 10s (sometimes 9.5s, sometimes 10.5s). 0-100 4.2s

 

[Jaco2k]

I will just drop this here....

 

[Jaco2k]

And this....

 

[Jaco2k]

By the way, i tunned my VZ version from stock 310PS to 411BHP. Here

Cool - do you have any extra engine mods? Did they do the DSG also?

I have been wondering why that tuners tunes seem to be quite low torque.

Regular Stage 1 should be 500NM, with TCU/DSG remap about 550NM and with Intake, Intercooler and exhaust I expect to get around 570nm.

Here is my current mods list:
- H&R -35mm springs
- LND R11 Forged wheels 20X9J ET38
- Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 245/35R20 tires (Summer)
- Continental VikingContact 7 245/40R19 on OEM wheels (Winter)
- Remus resonated OPF back exhaust + Remus resonator delete
- RacingLine R600 full intake + RacingLine intake hose and turbo elbow
- RacingLine front adjustable droplinks
- RacingLine front and rear subframe alignment kit
- RacingLine propshaft bearing alignment kit
- RacingLine front subframe brace
- RacingLine dogbone arm and subframe mount
- RacingLine stud conversion kit
- Rear sit floor lights retrofit
- Trunk light upgrade
- Skoda washer fluid bottle caps
- Hood struts


Planned:
- Stage 1+ ECU/DSG remap to 440bhp // 570nm
- Wagner intercooler

 

[rsmiech]

I want to go to Finland for a frozen lake. I envy you.
DSG still not hacked yet, for last versions of formentor, late 2021/2022. The work of the gearbox was/is a my main problem. But I still have to wait. Thanks for your setup, I will also thinking to mod something mechanically.

 

[Jaco2k]

I want to go to Finland for a frozen lake. I envy you. Thanks.

If you are not too far.... There is a ice track event being organised in second weekend of February - 11-12 FEB and a bunch of people are coming from Germany by ferry, also others from Estonia.
I am practically co-organizer so if you interested....

Hotel is 90€ per night or 45€ if you split with another person for two nights, food package is 70€ and track is 250€ for two full days of driving morning to evening (Saturday and Sunday)

Factor in about 400kms drive from HKI to track location and about 2 to 3 gas tanks while at the track - car drinks like crazy!

A lot of money, but totally worth it - the German crew comes every year since they have nothing similar there.

 

[rsmiech]

If you are not too far.... There is a ice track event being organised in second weekend of February - 11-12 FEB and a bunch of people are coming from Germany by ferry, also others from Estonia.
I am practically co-organizer so if you interested....

Hotel is 90€ per night or 45€ if you split with another person for two nights, food package is 70€ and track is 250€ for two full days of driving morning to evening (Saturday and Sunday)

Factor in about 400kms drive from HKI to track location and about 2 to 3 gas tanks while at the track - car drinks like crazy!

A lot of money, but totally worth it - the German crew comes every year since they have nothing similar there.

I just checked, from Poland to Tallinn in Estonia it's about 1460km, then around 80 km by ferry and 400km to the lake. It's pretty crazy, but who knows maybe? Thanks for the info. Regards

 

[Jaco2k]

I just checked, from Poland to Tallinn in Estonia it's about 1460km, then around 80 km by ferry and 400km to the lake. It's pretty crazy, but who knows maybe? Thanks for the info. Regards

There used to be Finnlines ferry from Gdynia to Helsinki, but might be cheaper to drive, yes.

 

[Glosphil]

FWD with winter tyres is far better on snow & ice than 4WD with summer tyres.

A few years ago I gave a neighbour a lift to work in my FWD Octavia vRS on winter tyres when he couldn't even get his BMW X5 off his drive. He bought winter tyres before the next winter.

 

[pkaps]

4wd on performance cars is not designed so that you can tame snow or climb mountains (although it definitely helps) but mainly to offer better traction, better transfer of power to the wheels and stability on dry/wet roads. Do you really think even exotic cars as Lambos, Buggati etc or even more down to earth performance hatchbacks as Audis S3, Formentors VZ/VZ5 etc s are 4wd so that they can tackle snow and behave like an offroad suv? Sure it can help and definitely is better than a 2wd under the same conditions and tyres but even hardcore all wheelers without special tyres or snow chains are almost helpless on snow. You don't buy a Formentor VZ/VZ5 or an S3 so that you can take it out on snow, not even WRC cars that engage the most sophisticated 4wheel drives can do that without special tyres. All this discussion is pointless, on snow you better have winter tyres or snow chains, yes 4wd is better that 2wd any way you look at it, rain, shine or snow, but to be as safe as possible on snow you cannot count alone on 4wd without winter tyres or chains.

 

[Oceanic]

I am not very impressed by the 4WD system on the Formentor since it only kick in when you have already lost the grip it kicks in to correct the problem of stability on the road.
On ice road i would ofc prefer they to be activated before turns atleast or at all times. But mainly when you turn your wheel you might need the 4WD.

So yes 4WD seem to be activated in more extreme circumstances, in the summer of you push the car in corner and in high speed I am sure it makes a big difference for the grip. For winter I wish it could activate more early in to prevent to lose grip instead of when you already have lost it.

I think a lot of people who buy this car think it use 4 wheel drive all the time.

I am not totally sure how the haldex work but I can imagine that you loose power when this does kick in you sacrifice power for grip?
Ao you would not want to have the this activated at all times?

 

[pkaps]

My friend, even hardcore 4wheel/awd drive cars loose grip and slide on snow, you can never outsmart physics unless you are a professional WRC driver with a WRC car and even that has its limitations. Don't be fooled by what you see that professionals do with special tyres/suspension and the most sophisticated awd systems, you can never expect from a production car to do that, no Subarus (highly overated awd and not the most reliable) no nothing can do that. Just try summer tyres 245/40/19, as on the Formentor, on a Subaru and then you can see if all this fuss about Subaru awd is true! You will be disappointed, as tyres are mainly the reason for traction and secondary the awd systems. Haldex is one of the most used and reliable systems, offering great traction and also fuel savings as it engages when is needed. Golf R, Audis s3, Quattros etc all use Haldex. Do you really think that for 20+ years the VAG group uses Haldex (in various editions) on their performance production cars, Golf R, Audi S3, Quattros and the likes because they don't know what they are doing and we do? Why is that Subaru with their awd system never evolved further into production performance cars apart from the Impreza's of 10+ years ago?

 

[Jaco2k]

I am not very impressed by the 4WD system on the Formentor since it only kick in when you have already lost the grip it kicks in to correct the problem of stability on the road.
On ice road i would ofc prefer they to be activated before turns atleast or at all times. But mainly when you turn your wheel you might need the 4WD.

So yes 4WD seem to be activated in more extreme circumstances, in the summer of you push the car in corner and in high speed I am sure it makes a big difference for the grip. For winter I wish it could activate more early in to prevent to lose grip instead of when you already have lost it.

I think a lot of people who buy this car think it use 4 wheel drive all the time.

I am not totally sure how the haldex work but I can imagine that you loose power when this does kick in you sacrifice power for grip?
Ao you would not want to have the this activated at all times?

If you set the diff to Cupra mode it is more aggressive at engaging

 

[Oceanic]

My friend, even hardcore 4wheel/awd drive cars loose grip and slide on snow, you can never outsmart physics unless you are a professional WRC driver with a WRC car and even that has its limitations. Don't be fooled by what you see that professionals do with special tyres/suspension and the most sophisticated awd systems, you can never expect from a production car to do that, no Subarus (highly overated awd and not the most reliable) no nothing can do that. Just try summer tyres 245/40/19, as on the Formentor, on a Subaru and then you can see if all this fuss about Subaru awd is true! You will be disappointed, as tyres are mainly the reason for traction and secondary the awd systems. Haldex is one of the most used and reliable systems, offering great traction and also fuel savings as it engages when is needed. Golf R, Audis s3, Quattros etc all use Haldex. Do you really think that for 20+ years the VAG group uses Haldex (in various editions) on their performance production cars, Golf R, Audi S3, Quattros and the likes because they don't know what they are doing and we do? Why is that Subaru with their awd system never evolved further into production performance cars apart from the Impreza's of 10+ years ago?

I am no car expert but correct me if I am wrong, the Haldex system... the car can only pushy out power into it in short pulses and not sustained right ?

 

[Vissa]

I am no car expert but correct me if I am wrong, the Haldex system... the car can only pushy out power into it in short pulses and not sustained right ?

Correct, the Haldex only sends power to the rear wheels when it senses that the front ones loose traction. The moment everything on the front seems good, it will send the power back to the front wheels again.