GT2871R questions

[Hurdy]

I've recently managed to do a good deal on a full GT2871R RSS kit and was hoping some of you knowledgeable chaps on here could help me with some questions I need answering.
Here goes....

What ultimate power could you get from the GT2871R?
Does anyone have this kit fitted to their Cupra and if so what is it like?
Do I need to get forged rods and pistons?
What would be the ideal bolt on parts to get the most out of the kit?
Any concerns about this kit?

Thanks for the help...hopefully

 

[Tfsi_Mike]

I've recently managed to do a good deal on a full GT2871R RSS kit and was hoping some of you knowledgeable chaps on here could help me with some questions I need answering.
Here goes....

What ultimate power could you get from the GT2871R?
Does anyone have this kit fitted to their Cupra and if so what is it like?
Do I need to get forged rods and pistons?
What would be the ideal bolt on parts to get the most out of the kit?
Any concerns about this kit?

Thanks for the help...hopefully

Alright John, welcome to the Darkside

Speak to DanGB on here... He has Big turbo

 

[Tfsi_Mike]

On the mapping side of things, Aprs stage3 map is based on this turbo kit...

 

[Al]

DanGB has this exact turbo and it makes just shy of 400bhp at 1.5 Bar, but with water meths should be 420-430bhp.

He had to get uprated pistons on his, but the pistons on the Ed30/Cupra are uprated over the FR/Sport/GTi BWA spec engine although I am not sure what the "safe" limit is on them.

 

[Tfsi_Mike]

I believe Dan has water meth now too....

 

[Al]

I believe Dan has water meth now too....

Yep, but he is not using it yet. He is planning to have it working for a r/r day in September. I was in Dans car on Friday and Saturday and it is very quick and very smooth.......

 

[Tfsi_Mike]

Yep, but he is not using it yet. He is planning to have it working for a r/r day in September. I was in Dans car on Friday and Saturday and it is very quick and very smooth.......

What's the lag like?? I mean spool in comparison to K04. I am considering GT3071R externaly gated as B.T as the spool is meant to be fast and obviously capable of holding high power...

 

[Al]

Dans car spools at just over 3000rpm and builds power really nicely. Speaking to Dan on MSN just now. I am sure he will be along in a minute to comment.....

Compared to K04, the K04 spools quicker and harder, but the GT2817R progresses very smoothly with the APR code and the top end is definitely stronger than the K04 S2+.

In a straight line race, you would see the GT2871R car be faster as expected, but I dont believe it would be night and day difference.

I would think that GT3071R would be more laggy than the GT2871R. I have to be honest and say how surprised at how early the GT2871 came in and on how smooth it is. Possibly the best compromise?

We need to get Dan on to the 1/4 mile now to see what him and his car are made of

 

[Hurdy]

I've been reading through Dan's trials and tribulations in his thread. The Kit I've done the deal on was on Jonnyc's S3 and was making just over 400bhp on there. I know the compression ratio is slightly different on the ED30 and so may make slightly less, but that doesn't really bother me. I didn't want to go for the GT3071R as I have the DSG box and so couldn't really utilise the power to it's best, but the GT2871R is probably the best match as it has a smoother torque build up than the K04, so should be a little easier on the tranny. Mate this to, the GIAC DSG Map I already have, the R888 rubber I have coming and the Quaife diff and it should be quite a formiddable car

I already have a full list of bolt on goodies as well as coilovers, WALK kit, F/R arbs and a Big brake kit, plus have the VF full engine mounts in with the deal I've done, so is there anything else on the suspension side I should consider?

Last time out on the "generous" Superchips dyno the car did 363bhp and 362lbft, but since then I swapped to Revo and the car feels that little bit more alive now.

Would I be better to settle for a sub 400bhp and lower torque figure and keep the stock internals or would I really feel a big benefit by spending the extra on internal pistons,rods, injectors and a water/meth kit for the extra power/torque I would get. More importantly, would the extra torque/power be useable and noticeable?

Finally... there are several tuning houses in the UK, so which one would be the best to go for?

APR does the software and Awesome GTI in Manchester can do the fitting (50 miles away)
GIAC does the software and Statller in Sheffield could do the fitting (5 miles away)
Custom Code are big turbo specialists and are 17 miles away and could do the fitting/ software too.
Revo??

 

[DanGB]

Ok i'll answer some questions here.

Software wise. I think the only place may be GIAC themselves as its there kit.

APR wont touch it as its a different kit with different parts like injectors for example.
Revo's BT file is for the GT3071R.

The most ive had with the kit is 390hp on awesomes dyno.

The water meth is a different story all together.

I think over 400hp hp figures were attributed to the fact the S3 had the lower compression. The problem with the high compression on these cars is that you cannot advanve the timing enough on normal fuels. The 380-390hp is the limit of the APR kit on super unleaded as anymore power would need more timing, but would induce too much timing retard to protect from knock.

The new k04 turbo is a great turbo, which is a similar size to the GT2860. The k04 tunes are running with the turbo at pretty much max flow, where as the GT2871R leaves the turbo with plenty of headroom. The way to reach the extra potential of this trubo is with better fueling. This is acheived with either race fuel, or something like water meth, which I have, but have yet to properly utilise.

Mose wise, it seems you pretty much setup for the BT setup. Seems like you handling is well setup. Im not sure what your injectors are capable of though. If you do get different injectros, these will have to be accounted for in the software tune.

inmternal wise, I believe the ED30 has strenegthened internals compared to the BWA engine so you will be fine for over 400hp. I only had to upgrade the Rods, as 380-390 was the safe limit, but im now going higher than that.

Let me know if you have more questions.

 

[Hurdy]

Thanks for the thorough and excellent reply Dan

I guess I'd better get myself down to Stattlers then to see what they can do for me as GIAC dealers

It makes sense on the DSG front too as that is GIAC as well and they can modify the parameters for me to suit the peak power rpm for the GT2871R

 

[Carr20vt]

Hi Mate,

Good buy there, it's going to be one fast ED30 for sure.

 

[Blade]

Thanks for the thorough and excellent reply Dan

I guess I'd better get myself down to Stattlers then to see what they can do for me as GIAC dealers

It makes sense on the DSG front too as that is GIAC as well and they can modify the parameters for me to suit the peak power rpm for the GT2871R

Go see Steve Jnr he,s a top tech and will def be able to install your kit.

 

[TDI Andy]

What size gt2871 is it? Housing, compressor wheel?

There's three.

 

[Hurdy]

What size gt2871 is it? Housing, compressor wheel?

There's three.

This is the info I have on the kit specs so far.

VF Engineering exhaust manifold
Garett GT2871R turbo with optional .86 AR exhaust housing
VF Engineering downpipe adaptation flange (allows you to run a standard / standard fit downpipe such as Milltek etc)
VF Engineering throttle body to intercooler pipe
VF Engineering intercooler to turbo inlet pipe
VF Engineering mechanical DV
VF Engineering turbo outlet bend (to fit with almost all of the CAI's on the market)

I went to see Steve jr and I'll be getting the specific injectors for this kit through Statllers.
Also getting forged pistons and rods - stock 82.5mm, so no re-bore.
A full set of VF engineering engine mounts.
Quaife diff.

All going to be fitted at Statllers.

Steve jr is confident that he can push well beyond 400bhp

 

[TDI Andy]

This is the info I have on the kit specs so far.

VF Engineering exhaust manifold
Garett GT2871R turbo with optional .86 AR exhaust housing
VF Engineering downpipe adaptation flange (allows you to run a standard / standard fit downpipe such as Milltek etc)
VF Engineering throttle body to intercooler pipe
VF Engineering intercooler to turbo inlet pipe
VF Engineering mechanical DV
VF Engineering turbo outlet bend (to fit with almost all of the CAI's on the market)

I went to see Steve jr and I'll be getting the specific injectors for this kit through Statllers.
Also getting forged pistons and rods - stock 82.5mm, so no re-bore.
A full set of VF engineering engine mounts.
Quaife diff.

All going to be fitted at Statllers.

Steve jr is confident that he can push well beyond 400bhp

You got the big one then. On my sr20det with the .64 housing i made 375bhp@fly and 385lbft @ 1.5bar. On the same day another lad from sxoc came up with the .86 housing and made 420bhp, 380lbft @ 1.2bar, he had uprated greddy cams but would of been running higher bhp than my turbo at lower boost without them imo.

Funny thing is our graphs looked identical bar his bhp rising after mine. His came on boost at the same time, so personally i see no reason for the smaller housing 2871

You getting an uprated head gasket? Rip the head off and get some high lift cams, stronger valve springs, retainers ect in there. Then it will be safe and quick.

If your forging you can run higher safe boost, what boost are you aiming for? As high as it will go before det? What management are you running?

 

[Hurdy]

Yep, Steve mentioned something about a 3 plate gasket?!?! (Note to self, must look into head gasketry!)

I've still to look at other ancilliaries like valve springs and retainers. I thought high lift cams were more for pushing power at the top of the rev range on N/A cars....What are the benefits of high lift cams on a forced induction engine? Even more power at the top end?

I'll be happy with a solid 420bhp. I'm not really after silly torque as I'm DSG. 1.3 to 1.5 bar will be more than enough as long as the engine settings can deal with it.

 

[Allan Andersen]

Nice, this is actually the presice same kit as i got, mine will be fitted 3 weekes from now, i will post the graphs after rolling road tests i will be running vpower 99 octane.

 

[Hurdy]

Nice, this is actually the presice same kit as i got, mine will be fitted 3 weekes from now, i will post the graphs after rolling road tests i will be running vpower 99 octane.

Oooh, that is excellent news

Waiting with baited breath over the RR tests, piccies, etc.

Are you going for uprated pistons and rods etc?

If so what specifications and makes did you go with?

 

[Hurdy]

Back on with it then.

I've spoken to both Chris at Regal and Steve jr. at Statllers and now my head really hurts.

I've plumped for the VF upgrade from RSS to RSR. Chris and Steve jr are discussing the details of what extra is needed and a few bits that should help with cooling.

Arias Pistons - 82.5mm bore (not listed on their website!)
Pauter rods

Chris says he has absolutely no piston slap or noise above what the ED30 has, which makes me feel a little easier.

RSR injectors - these have been specifically designed to match up with the RSR upgrade

The fuel rail will be upped from 130 to 150

PCV fix

S3 intercooler added to the Forge front mount.

Uprate the intake to 3" pipework

The retainers and springs are good for 500bhp and can stay stock if I want - same with the bearings - Regal's RSR are running OEM with these at 450bhp plus NOS on top

Performancewise, in fully clothed road spec the RSR can do 4.7 to 60 with it's new antilag system, so the DSG should be on par with this (if not better )

Chris has been running this setup for 2yrs with no issues and from what I have heard treats the car like he borrowed it

The work itself is going to be done on one of the low mileage ED30 blocks that they have in stock, so the turbo kit and blockwork can all be done whilst I'm still driving around in mine.

Steve jr. also mentioned whether or not I wanted to use the option of having the block and crank sent off to be cryogenically treated. I've heard of this before and for about £250 the block and crank are subjected to ultra low heat treatment which....................err well I'll let you read the link for yourselves

http://www.torquecars.com/tuning/cryogenic-treatments.php

More to come as I go along.