Is the PD engine dead?

[muddyboots]

I'm suprised you think that about HDIs, whenever I've heard an HDI-engined car pull up I've always thought they sound a lot more refined than the VAG PD.

Subaru boxer diesel....I can't begin to imagine what that will sound like !

Think you're right about VAG TDIs transforming perception of diesels. If you think about it, VAG not only pioneered the original hot hatch (Mk1 Golf), they also pioneered the diesel hot hatch with the Golf and then the Ibiza (although the Golf is the more "mainstream" car that caught peoples eye). Remember the "It's a diesel" adverts....

 

[Ant FR]

yep i certainly do remember those adverts. Thats what prompted me to cancel my order for a Peugeot 206 GTi 180 as company car, i went down and ordered a Berry Red 2003 Golf GT Tdi 130 for that very reson. it even came badged up as a GTi. I loved that car to bits

 

[AlpineWhite]

Don't forget the Fabia VRS when it got around the top gear test track faster than a mini cooper. A bit of a turning moment, for Joe Public and realising that diesels don't have to be agricultural or boring.

 

[Ant FR]

Don't forget the Fabia VRS when it got around the top gear test track faster than a mini cooper. A bit of a turning moment, for Joe Public and realising that diesels don't have to be agricultural or boring.

Nah i would'nt agrea with that, i think that was more for the Skoda brand, i don't think people suddenly thought "ahh fast diesel". i think it was more ahhh fast Skoda.

And i never ever liked that test, a 130bhp 235lb/ft torque car vs a 115 Bhp 110 lb/ft car. Was it any surprise the Skoda won, hardly. Still it showed up the Skoda's lardy ass handling.

I still think the VRS is always overhyped, when the Ibiza was doing it way before the skoda.

 

[ini]

I always wondered what the old VP engines would be like if they had injectors which had electronically controlled 'multiple injection events'.

The PD engines are good and torquey even if they are a bit rough, but the cam driven injector positioning and resulting 'special oil' requirements always seemed a bit dodgy to me.

The common rail with extreme fuel pressures, coupled with the newer injection control would seem to be the way to go.

The old classic TDI 90 & 110 engines do seem to win on reliability though, many still going with over a million miles on the clock.

 

[PhilOfCas]

Don't forget the Fabia VRS when it got around the top gear test track faster than a mini cooper. A bit of a turning moment, for Joe Public and realising that diesels don't have to be agricultural or boring.

there was the 330i/330d shoot out before that, at the time Jenson Button had just got a speeding ticket for about 140 in the d, that for me was the 'diesels can be fast' turning point, the i and the d were pretty much equal round a track

 

[glynnd]

Bravo mate.
Totally agree with that. My 150 pd may be slightly agricultural but I can get more mpg EASILY from my car than the wife's corsa cdti sri(1.7 99bhp) and now the leon is putting out somewhere around the 190bhp mark it really is a flying machine. I am all for the 1.9 pd (in 150+ guise) and much prefer it over the 2.0 pd 140 which I was selling when it first appeared.
Glynn

 

[PhilOfCas]

another turning point for me is the latest 335d, once again a BM'......oh and the 2.7 twin turbo d jag engine and the V8 d in the latest Range Rover and the 320CDi Merc.......sorry, needs to go back OT, anyone ?

 

[WaveyDaveyGravy]

maby should of had the vRS run against a car with the same weight and power
it would of been a fairer test. cos if you look at it from a petrol head's point of View they will always argue that the vRS had more power (regardless of weight)!

mini cooper:
Cubic capacity 1598
Cylinders 4
Max Power (bhp/rpm) 115/6000
Max Torque (lb ft/rpm) 111/4500
weight 1,150
Fuel Unleaded

SKODA Fabia vRS:
Cubic capacity 1900
Cylinders 4
Max Power (bhp) 130
Max Torque (lb ft/rpm) 229/1900
Weight 1,235
Fuel Deisel

And how much did they both cost? It's all very well saying about weight and power when one costs thousands more than another.

 

[Czech-m8]

maby should of had the vRS run against a car with the same weight and power
it would of been a fairer test. cos if you look at it from a petrol head's point of View they will always argue that the vRS had more power (regardless of weight)!

mini cooper:
Cubic capacity 1598
Cylinders 4
Max Power (bhp/rpm) 115/6000
Max Torque (lb ft/rpm) 111/4500
weight 1,150
Fuel Unleaded

SKODA Fabia vRS:
Cubic capacity 1900
Cylinders 4
Max Power (bhp) 130
Max Torque (lb ft/rpm) 229/1900
Weight 1,235
Fuel Deisel

Look, we won, that's all there is to it!

Besides, the handling's frightening until its "sorted". The mini should have exploited its superior cornering. However, a 'gutless' engine don't help

Anyway, I refuse to race anything other than Cooper 'S's these days, just to keep the Petrolheads happy

(Pity they're mostly driven by Hairdressers ).

John.

 

[Husbandofstinky]

Anyway soory but in general the PSA lumps have been rough and noisey and always rather smokey.

They can't be that bad considering BMW use PSA units in all their Minis!!! including the diesel.

Agreed with remainder of the 'refined' diesels list, but imo the PSA group were the ones bringing diesel to the masses in blighty before the germans.

Peugeot 205's, 405's, 309's etc, Citroen BX's to name but a few. Back in the eighties the germans were nowhere with diesels and Japanese even further back still.

I hate to say it but the French brought diesel to these shores

 

[Sooty torques]

Having owned 1 x Pug 309 GLD, 1 x Zx TurboD, 1 x ZX Volcane TurboD, 1 x Leon 110TDI and now a Leon 130PD TDI, imho the smoothest engine was the 110; the most fun to drive was actually the 309 My brother has a Pug 406 90 HDI and it is a real lard-arse, not particularly smooth or quiet either. Over taking needs some considerable planning

Have read a lot about the Subaru boxer derv lump - it seems an excellent power unit and very, very quiet. Also has bags of potential for tuning and tweaking by Subaru, so should make for some interesting variations in the Impreza or whatever they bung it into next. Power delivery is supposed to be very smooth with no torque shove though - more like a petrol lump.

 

[s10mph]

The PD engines are cheap to produce at present as the whole VAG range uses them in their cooking models. I would expect them to start to dissapear this autumn when the Golf Mk6 is released, this being the biggest selling model in Europe.
The 1.4tdi is way to go for themass market deisel engine.
Another reason to finish off the PD is emissions & economy,technology has moved on.

 

[AlpineWhite]

Looks like I've started a bit of debate on the VRS vs. Mini Cooper!

Yes, from a petrolhead's point of view, the VRS has a big advantage in terms of power and torque. But my point stil stands - Joe Public sees a sporty skoda diesel beat a sporty mini cooper. Joe Public isn't really interested in how much torque (or how many torques, to quote Top Gear) each car produces or how much it weighs.

Now, whether the shock was in the skoda factor or the diesel factor (or a mixture of both) is another matter altogether......

 

[Husbandofstinky]

Looks like I've started a bit of debate on the VRS vs. Mini Cooper!

Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!

 

[warren_cox]

When you look at the fuel economy produced by the BMW diesels it's no wonder that VW had to reassess their position. I'm sure Euro Reg's featured in the decision too, as well as overall cost savings.

I used to have a Revo'd 1.9TDi Ibiza FR and despite its diesel characteristics it was astonishingly powerful and economical, especially when you think it came packaged in a car I only paid £10,250 for brand new. A real benchmark engine in its day. Admittedly I'm back in a petrol for now, but I'd certainly consider a 335Cd next time round. My wife had a Golf Mk4 130PS GT TDi company car 5 years or so back and that was what drove my decision to try the diesel.

As for PSA's, I'm usually so offended by the cabin and drive characteristics of these cars I never notice whether the engine is any good or not. Apologies to any owners, but the Pug 307 is one of my least favourite hatches to drive ever.

 

[glynnd]

They are rubbish end of!
Glynn

 

[Husbandofstinky]

the Pug 307 is one of my least favourite hatches to drive ever.

Despite being a fan of the 306 (I had a few of these in diesel in my time), the 307 was one of the worse cars I have ever driven. The diesel engine's fine, but the rest of it!!!

Was once a Peugeot owner (1 x 309, 2 x 205's and 3 x 306's) all of which were diesel. All of them were 100% reliable, very economical, reasonable power (in their time) and above all a pretty good drive.

I only had one breakdown in all of the 14 years of driving them - a 205 whose clutch cable went. That's it.

The 307 to me was like a knife in the back.