Making my tdi Sport as fast as cupra.

[pawel]

today I decided that I want to make my tdi Sport as fast as Cupra but I dont want to loose reliability. So far I found out that Cupra has got 160bhp and 330nM and does 0-100 in around 7,6 seconds?

I want to change air intake into P160 to make sure that the engine is getting enough air, people that do remaps say that "non agressive" chip should give my car something around 161bhp and 380nM. Will that make my car drive like Cupra or should I get something more.
What's important I don't want to get higher fuel consumption from Cupra, and as mentioned couple of times before reliability is well important

As soon as I'm done I'm going to have the most sleepy looking Ibiza with Cupra performance nice....

 

[sssstew]

So you have a Mk4 Ibiza PD 130 which you want to make as good as a PD160 Cupra right?

Intake, remap yes. The cupra has a FMIC on so you will need to swap out your SMIC for one to match the cupra but thats not urgent. Then its suspension and brakes which you will need to match as the cupra has different ones. Theres plenty of threads in the past in the tdi section about people doing this with their FR and Sport models, have a look back through.

 

[Seatmann]

Go for it man. I've read on other sites about tuning tdi's and it seems like a good plan. I don't know what age of car you have but mine is a 2000 plate cordoba vario 1.9tdi 90bhp 200nm and from what I've read I could get it up around the 200bhp mark quite easily by using the turbo and injectors from a 110 and then getting a remap. I'm also keen to keep it sleepy but with a hidden bite. Remaps are supposed to help on fuel economy apparently as long as you're not booting it all the time. But I don't know the answer to your question lol.

 

[pawel]

Thanks for answers. Do you think that after this remap and intake it is possible to get 0-100 in around 7,6-8 seconds?

Last question is the downpipe and stuff around turbo same in cupra? I now that the tip of the muffler is different but as I want my car to look as sleepy as possible I want my muffler to remain hidden

So far I'm not going to mess with the brakes and suspension -> previous owner installed set of new Koni shocks around the car so it's pretty "tight"

 

[TerrificToledo]

8 seconds would be my guess mate, the exhaust is basically the same. If you want to upgrade your id' go for a big bore downpipe and decat, as for the tip it wouldn't make much difference. another thing you could do is buy the same turbo that the PD160 uses, i think it's just the normal PD150 one, but for this you'd definately have to consider that front mount intercooler.

@Seatmann - 200's a bit ambitous from the 90 model haha the non PD engines are a bit trickyer to tune than the newer PD's, but after a turbo swap (the 150 turbo, or better still: hybrid), fmic, injector swap, filet, exhaust and remap... yeah im sure the 200bhp mark wouldn't be too far off. but then your talking big bucks! don't forget your clutch will never take that sort of power either! and of course 200 bhp is a little harder to stop than 90, so big brakes for sure

 

[brad1]

I had my 110tdi leon running at 190.7bhp 303.5ftlb

 

[muddyboots]

I'd sort your brakes first, and then look at engine performance mods.

Standard brakes on a 130 aren't the best, do a search for 312mm brake upgrades on here.

I used to have a remapped TDI Sport, and the brake upgrade was probably the best mod I did to the car.

 

[pawel]

I'm not really much of a racer just want to be able to cope with some of the Rice Cars ...

Final question what's the truth about fuel economy after remap? I know that people who do remaps usually say that it's either lower or the same. Still some people that have remaped cars say that the consumption is higher. And after reaching "safe" 160bhp is there any chance that the engine will be more prone to "mechanical problems" or should everything stay the same?

TerrificToledo -> My point is that I don't want to change anything in the exhaust The car on OEM mufflers makes very little noise and I want to keep it that way Nice quiet sleepy looking 8sec. ibiza sounds fine to me

 

[Husbandofstinky]

Just a remap then drive it normally and it should be slightly better than what you're getting now. Conversely if you boot it after a map then it'll drink more. That's you existing set up

Start messing about with turbo's etc then a totally different kettle of fish, but its not going to be stupid (10/20% down?).

 

[pawel]

Thankf for answer More Knowledge better results but there is still one thing that worries me most -> reliability? Is there any chance that this 160bhp will be "too much" for this engine?

 

[James_R]

well there's a varied response here from all angles.

Firstly - if you want to have 160bhp then get a remap and 160 intake (the intake will compliment the map) and can see much higher results than 160bhp.

If you drive like a tool pre or post map then the remap will only increase fuel consumption but if you drive without foolishness then you might see a small increase in mpg.

0-100kph 7-8 seconds yes but 0-100mph is very optimistic and would require more work than a remap.

Sssstew has made a valid point about the FMIC but if you choose not to carry out anymore mods then the SMIC will suffice.

Seatman drives a vario (like me) so obviously his opinion counts.

Brad1 has deserted us diesel boys so his opinion should be disregarded

Muddyboots has probably brought up the most important point - to go fast you have to be able to slow down. its fine having the extra power but if you cant stop then you might as well not bother and the 312mm brake upgrade can be done relatively cheap.

Husbandofstinky is right on the mark - remap fine but if you want serious power from the ATD/ASZ/ARL/BPX engine then its a whole different ball game which ends up in big bills.

Reliability shouldnt be an issue after a remap PROVIDING its done by a reputable company with a proven track record.

exhaust wise you should get a decat with a straight through pipe to gain the best results - no backbox but have a muffler tip or pipe tilted downward on the back. Noise wont really be an issue as the combustion sounds are different on a diesel to a petrol.

 

[pawel]

very much appreciate this answer
Well the point is that I don't need (and to be honest don't want) anything more than 160bhp and around 8sec. 0-100kph. I do believe that pushing this engine more will be somehow harmful (I like to be on the safe side). So the list of mods goes:
1) Pd160 intake
2) remap
3) bigger brakes (altough my 288mm seem quite ok at the moment)

Again I would like to say that I'm very thankful for your help. Previously I owned a petrol car and I these are my first steps into adding some power into TDI

 

[jonjay]

Have you thought about engine transplant. Stick the 150PD lump in there....

 

[sssstew]

I'm not really much of a racer just want to be able to cope with some of the Rice Cars ...

Final question what's the truth about fuel economy after remap? I know that people who do remaps usually say that it's either lower or the same. Still some people that have remaped cars say that the consumption is higher. And after reaching "safe" 160bhp is there any chance that the engine will be more prone to "mechanical problems" or should everything stay the same?

TerrificToledo -> My point is that I don't want to change anything in the exhaust The car on OEM mufflers makes very little noise and I want to keep it that way Nice quiet sleepy looking 8sec. ibiza sounds fine to me

re the economy, typically people drive a bit harder after a remap because they want to see what its like, what it can do etc, so their fuel economy goes down, but if you drive the same as before you should see a slight increase, the reason is mainly due to there being more torque available meaning you wont need to change down so soon and works the gearbox as much.

 

[TerrificToledo]

couldn't you just drill the hell out of your air box rather than fit the 160 intake? or am i missing a point? lol

 

[muddyboots]

... there is still one thing that worries me most -> reliability? Is there any chance that this 160bhp will be "too much" for this engine?

Should be fine, there are *lots* of people running off-the-shelf maps that develop higher power figures than that.
If you're concerned about reliability, it's the peak torque figures and the smoothness of delivery you want to be looking at, with regards to whether your clutch will survive or whether you need to start saving for an uprated model. Lots of discussion on this subject, have a search for "clutch slip" on here, it's been done to death...

If you really are wanting a more reliable map limited to around 160bhp (and torque limited, to be sure of clutch reliability), you be better going to a knowledgeable tuner who will write a map to your spec, as most off-the-shelf remaps will put out more than you're looking for.
I've no direct experience, but from what I've read from others, might be worth speaking to P-Torque (see their forum on here), heard good feedback and think they can tailor maps to your requirements.

 

[bubbles1]

My MK4 pd 130 has ran 205 bhp and 380lbsft for the last 7 years and only just had a engine problem (cam follower failure) after 107k miles.

I would say reliability is not an issue with these engines so go and enjoy

 

[trebormint]

50,000 miles now on PD130 engine with P-torque remap. Engine currently on 151,000! Engine running just as well as when I took into P-torque.

 

[Husbandofstinky]

Have you thought about engine transplant. Stick the 150PD lump in there....

It begs the question why not start from a 150PD starting point i.e. all the talk of FMIC etc?

 

[pawel]

terrificToledo -> I don't want to drill anything in my awesomely oem looking car I dont think cupra has got any holls drilled so I think that bigger intake will do it's job done.

I found a good remap company that writes a new map on the basis of the one downloaded from the ECU they are currently working on. Waiting for the postman and my intake (managed to get one - slightly used - for around 20$). The numbers that I want to achieve are around 160bhp and 350nM. Cupra in catalogue shows 160bhp and 330nM. They say that a lot depends on the road tests before the remap. I want to avoid having a HUGE peak of torque but rather a constant line.

I'll post my graph as soon as it's done.

Can anyone povide my with a Series Cupra Dyno Graph? I'm just interested in whether mine will be similar