Sealants for engine parts

[skyrocketeer]

Before attempting the timing chain on my 1.2 tsi, I'm accruing parts. One thing that has me stumped is the sealants used in place of gaskets these days.

Through digging on other sites, I can identify 2 OE part number:

D 176 404 A2 - seems to be for the sump
D 174 003 A2 - seems to be for the timing chain covers

Is there a generic 'off the shelf' product that meets both these specifications? or do I need 2 nearly identical tubes of shmoo to get mixed up?

I've read a few warnings on excessive use causing oil pickup blockages - consider me warned!

 

[Crossthreaded]

I've been using this stuff https://www.halfords.com/tools/gara...rs/loctite-si-5980-flange-sealant-599720.html for a number of years now. I use it on water pumps, sumps, timing covers, gearbox casings - pretty much any metal to metal joints. Works very well, no leaks anywhere yet that I'm aware of.

Absolutely, don't use excessive amounts for exactly the reason you mention. Most metal to metal joints are so good you couldn't get a 1.5 thou feeler through them so 90% of the sealant gets squeezed out from between the mating surfaces anyway.

 

[skyrocketeer]

Went with some elring dirko stuff in the end, as it explicitly states it meets the spec of the oem magic goo. Still scraping the old stuff off the sump flange, picked an alarming amount out of the oil pump pickup strainer too (back-washed it with white spirit). Makes me wonder if the guys on the assembly line were being a bit carefree, or someone else has had the sump off in the past.

 

[Crossthreaded]

Went with some elring dirko stuff in the end, as it explicitly states it meets the spec of the oem magic goo. Still scraping the old stuff off the sump flange, picked an alarming amount out of the oil pump pickup strainer too (back-washed it with white spirit). Makes me wonder if the guys on the assembly line were being a bit carefree, or someone else has had the sump off in the past.

I've seen videos of the engines being built and the sealant is usually applied by robots in very precise amounts. Any other pointers which might lead you to suspect it's been apart since leaving the factory? - Machines like this one:

 

[skyrocketeer]

Any other pointers which might lead you to suspect it's been apart since leaving the factory?

A fair amount of the paint on the mating face of the sump was gone, even before I started scraping, so I reckon it's had attention post factory

 

[Crossthreaded]

So maybe it's had chain problems before this? - or, maybe, someone stripped the sump plug threads and fitted a new sump? I started looking for a replacement for my lovely old 1.9tdi Cordoba Vario (estate) just before the EA211 cam belt engines came in. The "anti diesel thing" was going strong so I'd decided to go back to petrol after many years of running diesels but I was really put off the chain driven petrol engines available at that time because of all that I'd heard about chain and tensioner problems. Luckily for me the belt cam engines appeared and I bought a 3cyl 95hp Ibiza estate in early 2016. The only problem I've had with it was that it had the early turbo which seems prone to seizing up the actuating rod from the wastegate actuator. It does this so completely that the entire turbo often needs to be replaced - which is what happened to mine, luckily before the warranty ran out! The only other thing worth mentioning is that I really don't like the Bridgestone "Ecopic" tyres fitted. They are now down to around 3mm and I had to replace one due to a puncture a couple of weeks ago. I'm now poised to replace the other 3 before the bad winter weather comes in, but not with more Bridgestones.

I'm vaguely aware that modifications were subsequently done to the chain tensioner and I believe that the original chains themselves were not of very good quality but it's all hearsay for me. Do you know what specifically has been done to address the chain/tensioner wear problems on these engines?

 

[skyrocketeer]

So maybe it's had chain problems before this? - or, maybe, someone stripped the sump plug threads and fitted a new sump? I started looking for a replacement for my lovely old 1.9tdi Cordoba Vario (estate) just before the EA211 cam belt engines came in. The "anti diesel thing" was going strong so I'd decided to go back to petrol after many years of running diesels but I was really put off the chain driven petrol engines available at that time because of all that I'd heard about chain and tensioner problems. Luckily for me the belt cam engines appeared and I bought a 3cyl 95hp Ibiza estate in early 2016. The only problem I've had with it was that it had the early turbo which seems prone to seizing up the actuating rod from the wastegate actuator. It does this so completely that the entire turbo often needs to be replaced - which is what happened to mine, luckily before the warranty ran out! The only other thing worth mentioning is that I really don't like the Bridgestone "Ecopic" tyres fitted. They are now down to around 3mm and I had to replace one due to a puncture a couple of weeks ago. I'm now poised to replace the other 3 before the bad winter weather comes in, but not with more Bridgestones.

I'm vaguely aware that modifications were subsequently done to the chain tensioner and I believe that the original chains themselves were not of very good quality but it's all hearsay for me. Do you know what specifically has been done to address the chain/tensioner wear problems on these engines?

I'm not convinced it's had anything done to the timing chain, as the chain cover is somewhat better gooped on. I've also inspected the sprockets and such that came out and I reckon they're the early ones, and the later ones I'm fitting are a mm or so wider in chain and sprockets (new one on left).

I find changing timing belts a bit of a ball-ache (particularly on a transverse engine) so when the missus needed a new car (I went for a small capacity petrol as she does lots of local and short journeys) the 'fitted for life' chain on the 1.2 TSI didn't faze me. ho hum.
I had the 3cyl TSI as a loaner and found it a bit uncouth. I could live with the 3pot thrum but the turbo lag and subsequent kick up the rump was a bit harsh compared to the more controlled delivery of the 1.2 4pot. (the loaner also had manual rear windows!)

 

[Crossthreaded]

I'm not convinced it's had anything done to the timing chain, as the chain cover is somewhat better gooped on. I've also inspected the sprockets and such that came out and I reckon they're the early ones, and the later ones I'm fitting are a mm or so wider in chain and sprockets (new one on left).
View attachment 27737 I find changing timing belts a bit of a ball-ache (particularly on a transverse engine) so when the missus needed a new car (I went for a small capacity petrol as she does lots of local and short journeys) the 'fitted for life' chain on the 1.2 TSI didn't faze me. ho hum.
I had the 3cyl TSI as a loaner and found it a bit uncouth. I could live with the 3pot thrum but the turbo lag and subsequent kick up the rump was a bit harsh compared to the more controlled delivery of the 1.2 4pot. (the loaner also had manual rear windows!)

Thanks for the pics of the sprockets, very interesting.

Regarding your comments about turbo lag on the 3 pot engines. I find it has two negative effects. The most annoying is the way it affects driving over road humps. Up here in Edinburgh these scourges (the speed bumps) are mostly in 20mph zones (much of Edinburgh is now 20MPH - although lots of people don't observe it) I'm a bit obsessed with trying to spare my road springs by trying not to make them flex too much when negotiating speed bumps so I tend to select second gear when confronted by speed bumps. This lets me attain 20mph between the bumps without overrevving the engine but also reduce speed significantly to mount the bumps without experiencing large suspension deflections. It also means I don't have to be constsntly changing gear between the bumps. The down side is that the engine drops right off boost as I'm travelling over the bumps so there is significant lag when I get back on the throttle. After a wee while you adapt your driving and I now start to open the throttle as the back wheels mount the bump which results in power coming in just as the rear wheels start to roll on the flat surface again. The other down side is that there is very little torque available at low engine revs when the turbo is not blowing much. This means that it's relatively easy to stall the engine when making hill starts etc. Of course you adapt and I do find the car is a nice drive out in the country where the turbo is pretty much boosting enough to give acceleration on demand whenever needed - in fact, because of the turbo, it's not all that unlike my old TDI in the way it delivers some grunt at quite low revs so you don't have to rev the "nuts" off it to make reasonable progress and it's fuel consumption is not far off what I used to get with the diesel. All in all, I'm quite pleased with it but I would choose to take our wee old normally aspirated Fiat Panda, with it's instantaneous throttle response, if I'm dodging around the town.

 

[skyrocketeer]

Well if you like pics (new on the left):






I quite like the 1.2 8v engine, it drives a lot like my old 1.8 8v gti, plenty of low down torque but happy to pull up to the red-line. They got the boost levels just right as you can barely feel the turbo kicking in, it simply drives like a larger NA engine. I don't mind the speed humps here, there aren't so many, and the odd bump over them is enough to sort the intermittent wiring fault on the indicators we get sometimes