Turbo lag on the 310

[pkaps]

Is it me or the turbo lag on my 310 is actually that awful? This is from day one (even on the test car I drove before buying), nothing wrong with the car, have so far almost 20 k km (abt 12500 miles) with no mechanical or electrical issues whatsoever but the turbo lag is horrendous. If you drive on any other mode other than Cupra (where its considerably better however still there) and you floor it, you have to wait 1-2 seconds for the turbo to kick in, not good at all especially when overtaking. Must be the size of the turbo, but shouldn't they have found a way to lessen the delay effect? All in all it doesn't feel like there are 310 horses under the bonnet and the gas pedal lacks responsiveness. How do you remedy that? Only by reprogramming I guess but not the time yet!

 

[Peyton]

Are you sure it is not the DSG downshifting that causes the delay? To me that is the most significant part. The car cannot predict that you will floor it from cruising at 80km/h so it needs to downshift several gears before it can accelerate as hard as you are demanding it.

Try to downshift manually before flooring it to see how fast it goes? Or stay in manual mode at 2500-3000 rpm and then floor it.

 

[SRGTD]

Are you sure it is not the DSG downshifting that causes the delay? To me that is the most significant part. The car cannot predict that you will floor it from cruising at 80km/h so it needs to downshift several gears before it can accelerate as hard as you are demanding it.

Try to downshift manually before flooring it to see how fast it goes? Or stay in manual mode at 2500-3000 rpm and then floor it.

I was thinking the same.

With my previous (manual) car it was second nature to me to change down a gear or two if I needed instant rapid acceleration, because I was unlikely to get that instant rapid acceleration in top gear at relatively low engine rpm’s and just flooring the throttle.

Same with current (DSG) car; Downshifting manually removes that second or two ‘thinking time’ the DSG would need if left to its own devices.

 

[Peyton]

I was thinking the same.

With my previous (manual) car it was second nature to me to change down a gear or two if I needed instant rapid acceleration, because I was unlikely to get that instant rapid acceleration in top gear at relatively low engine rpm’s and just flooring the throttle.

Same with current (DSG) car; Downshifting manually removes that second or two ‘thinking time’ the DSG would need if left to its own devices.

Also with a manual car, if you floor it there is no delay. In a DSG car it usually does a massive downshift and then starts rapidly accelerating.

It definitely feels very different.

 

[TheUkWizard]

I thought it was just me.. it's basically the turbo kicks in only at quite a high rev, so
I agree if u stamp your foot suddenly, then it will downshift to get the revs in the turbo range and then lurch forward.

This was the first petrol car I have had in a while, but tons of experience of turbo diesels so presumed it was just me. As diesels turbos are mostly engaged in a much lower rev range.

In my opinion, the turbo kick-in rev level is way too high. Maybe to keep efficiency higher.

Sometimes the gear change can be quite a jerk too in the above scenario

 

[pkaps]

Auto downshifting is what it takes the 1-2 seconds to engage, it just feels slow to downshift and respond, I mean it takes a second to do. Used to have the previous gen Q3 same engine (170 hp though) tiptronic and didnt have that extended delay, used to have the 1.4 Gt Golf 5 dsg and didn't have that delay, that's why I'm puzzled and I feel its down to the turbo size in order to make the 310 hp. Yes, using manual shifting is better but still from low rpms there is not that instant power surge and response I was expecting.

 

[pkaps]

I thought it was just me.. it's basically the turbo kicks in only at quite a high rev, so
I agree if u stamp your foot suddenly, then it will downshift to get the revs in the turbo range and then lurch forward.

This was the first petrol car I have had in a while, but tons of experience of turbo diesels so presumed it was just me. As diesels turbos are mostly engaged in a much lower rev range.

In my opinion, the turbo kick-in rev level is way too high. Maybe to keep efficiency higher.

Sometimes the gear change can be quite a jerk too in the above scenario

Yes, definitely one reason must be the efficiency that's why the late kick in. Got to find a way to work around it , after the warranty is over as it is my personal car to keep. Soon no more like it will be produced.

 

[Napmasterflash]

I have a 310 and this doesn't sound like my car. If you are using the paddles you can get in the right gear in advance and the car just fly's. If in auto use the sport mode and you will get a bit of a delay as it kicks down but I wouldn't say I have ever experienced a notable turbo lag.

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[pkaps]

There is turbo lag no doubt, only in sport/cupra mode it is less evident because, if you notice, the car idles at 1100 rpm, when in other modes it idles at abt 900 rpm. Higher idle helps minimizing the turbo lag, thats why when in launch control mode the rpms are at 3000 to have the turbo engaged with no delay. All turbo engines are like that, even in WRC cars, the bigger the turbo the longer delay, so the need to keep the rpms high to eliminate the turbo lag. In recent years some small turbo engines (Ford) with mild hybrid systems have managed to almost eliminate the turbo lag, having the electric power compensate for the power loss due to turbo lag at the start. I have driven the 1.0 lt mild hybrid turbo Puma in both versions, the 125 hp and the 155 hp, the latter having a larger turbo unit, so mainly the hp difference. Well, I was impressed with the 125 hp engine, very responsive, very sharp, at the touch of the pedal, perfect car in my opinion for city driving (and not limited to) and quite frugal. The 155 hp same engine version on the other hand had more power in the mid and higher range but also turbo lag, not so at the start but still there compared to the 125 hp engine. My Q3 with the 2lt petrol engine with the 170 hp had far less turbo lag than the 310 Formentor, it was more like the 155 hp Puma. Anyhow I guess its all a matter of getting used to it, or use more often the Sport/Cupra modes, until the warranty expires and I can reprogram the ECU.

 

[Napmasterflash]

There is turbo lag in your opinion.

But you can work around it.

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[Bear]

There is turbo lag no doubt, only in sport/cupra mode it is less evident because, if you notice, the car idles at 1100 rpm, when in other modes it idles at abt 900 rpm. Higher idle helps minimizing the turbo lag, thats why when in launch control mode the rpms are at 3000 to have the turbo engaged with no delay. All turbo engines are like that, even in WRC cars, the bigger the turbo the longer delay, so the need to keep the rpms high to eliminate the turbo lag. In recent years some small turbo engines (Ford) with mild hybrid systems have managed to almost eliminate the turbo lag, having the electric power compensate for the power loss due to turbo lag at the start. I have driven the 1.0 lt mild hybrid turbo Puma in both versions, the 125 hp and the 155 hp, the latter having a larger turbo unit, so mainly the hp difference. Well, I was impressed with the 125 hp engine, very responsive, very sharp, at the touch of the pedal, perfect car in my opinion for city driving (and not limited to) and quite frugal. The 155 hp same engine version on the other hand had more power in the mid and higher range but also turbo lag, not so at the start but still there compared to the 125 hp engine. My Q3 with the 2lt petrol engine with the 170 hp had far less turbo lag than the 310 Formentor, it was more like the 155 hp Puma. Anyhow I guess its all a matter of getting used to it, or use more often the Sport/Cupra modes, until the warranty expires and I can reprogram the ECU.

So you've answered your own question then...

 

[manucupra]

Hi @pkaps did you manage to resolve your turbo lag problem?
Even with the 150 HP TDI DSG model this annoying problem persist. As already discussed the problem seems to be more related to downshifting delay rather than turbo entering in action. I tried some 'pedal sprints': they increase base RPM and speed a bit the pedal response but it's quite annoying to find yourself stuck in traffic and unable to quickly squeeze just because your gearbox is thinking which gear is better to insert....AAAARGH. As most of you, I've been used to manually downshift, but it's a big shame. Still searching a solution for that. I would re-programm the ECU as well (i could get a +50HP as well) but it's a long term rented car so it's actually not possible to be done.

 

[pkaps]

Hi manucupra, I have also used the pedal box to help with the lag and it did help a little, or so I did think, but still not what I wanted really, so I disconnected it.
Only solution, if not reprogramming or tuning the engine icu, is to put it in Sport mode which decreases the turbo lag, however this is mainly because the idle shifts up to abt 1100 rpm. If you don't have sport mode the only alternative is to reprogram/tune your icu, you will gain some extra hp and torque which will help in every aspect the turbo lag, however your consumption will increase somewhat and your warranty may be voided if not done through a dealer.

 

[manucupra]

Totally agree! I removed it as well a couple of weeks later. I do have the Sport mode and, as you suggest, it helps but not the way you would expect. Even switching off ESC doesn't help. A couple of months ago I left the car for maintenance, received a 2019 Ford Kuga (automatic gearbox, diesel engine, 80k+ kms). Totally amazed by the pedal and engine response, so enjoyable and fast to give all that it had (was not as fast as the formentor, though). I was almost afraid to get back to the Formentor (at that time I had an obsession on this topic). I think I just need to get used to it

 

[pkaps]

Different gearboxes and probably different turbo units. Smaller turbo units have less lag but your gains higher up are limited that's why it didn't feel nor was faster than yours. Don't know what engine the Kuga had but seems to be the 1.5 diesel, yes it would feel more responsive, it has to be that way to move the large chassis, but to do so they most probably use a smaller turbo than the ones for the 2.0 lt . As noted, driving the 1.0 lt Puma, the 125 hp version was more responsive in lower-mid rpm than the 155 hp version, and joy to drive around town. The 155 hp seemed better in the higher rpm range and acceleration when if full power. Seemed odd at the time to me but soon found out that the 155 hp has a larger turbo unit.
Mind you the dsg gearbox in normal mode is tuned to change gears quicker and at low rpm for better fuel consumption, which is what car companies aim to in order not to pay huge fines and be in line with recent strict emissions standards, so when gears are changing at lower rpm then the turbo unit is not working at total capacity and thus the lag on bigger engines.

 

[manucupra]

Fuel & emission optimization is what is limiting the real potentiality of this car. A bit of tuning, a stage 1 for instance, would take out all the capacity of the car. Do you know anyone who has done this upgrade?

 

[Karbonfaiba]

Since it's been almost 2 years since the OP; I think you've come to understand about how different engines feel in their power delivery, but also the difference between a torque convertor and a DSG - which is actually the biggest difference you'll feel in all cars under 300hp.

What I will add however; there is hardly any turbo lag on the Formentor VZ 310, take it from an Audi RS3 driver! The continental turbo fitted to the gen.4 is actually suited perfectly, literally dead in the middle of the power band on stock tuning.

Turbo lag is like another different, more dynamic feeling, layered on top of throttle delay / clutch engagement, or engine torque curve - which is more static and predicable.

For sure, under 20mph you'll miss those brilliant little ecoboost turbos, but over 60mph you'll wish the turbo was a little larger tbh.

Tl;dr; it's the DSG, in combination with the programming - my TCU tuner recommendation for the DQ381 and DQ500 will always be TVS Stage 2+. Don't bother with anything less imo. Tune it with any well-known ECU map at your discretion. You'll be paying modified insurance premiums anyway, make it count!

 

[pkaps]

'literally dead in the middle of the power band on stock tuning', Exactly that my friend, that's where the turbo lag reigns, unless of course you don't let go off the gas pedal, but if you do that you are then in race mode, not advisable for normal everyday driving! Once rpms in the mid range fall that's when the turbo lag takes over , try then to pick up speed and its all there for a second or so until it reaches again full operating mode. Haven't driven an RS3 but I suppose the turbo lag there is more evident due to bigger engine and as such most probably bigger turbo.