What Cast External wg manifold? Do US ones fit?

[fat_tony11]

Hey, I cant seem to find a definitive answer, I am planning a BT for my 2001 s3, I will be using a gt3071r turbo with an external wastegate, I cant find any cast manifolds in the UK.

I have heard that a US manifold will be offset to the wrong side as the lhd master cylinders etc are obviously in a different place. Will I have issues trying to route a 3" downpipe from say a Kinetic manifold like this one ; http://www.ctsturbo.com/products/Kinetic_1_8T_T3_Turbo_Manifold-153-2.html

Or will it be fine with a custom made downpipe? are there any already produced T3 E/wg manifold and downpipe combinations that will fit around the 4wd bits?

Thanks for the info, I want to maybe start ordering parts soon

 

[ibizacupra]

Top mounted right hand drive friendly manifold for T3 fitment + externally gated.
£800inc vat for mani

This one we are close to fitting to an Audi A3 quattro (2000 year) so fitment will be very similar to your S3.

regards
bill

 

[fat_tony11]

Top mounted right hand drive friendly manifold for T3 fitment + externally gated.
£800inc vat for mani

This one we are close to fitting to an Audi A3 quattro (2000 year) so fitment will be very similar to your S3.

regards
bill

Im a bit scared of cracking issues like on hooches mani, i know you know your stuf though through reading countless posts for the last year!

Could you explain the differences of your manifold to a cast item? I think i know but im no pro! Is the spool rpm reduced? And does the turbo hold more boost for longer higher up the rpm range? Or am I confusing information?

I saw in one of your posts a picture of your mani coated in something, was that a ceramic coating? what are the advantages of that?

And what could I do to insure it against cracking? Obviously i know the best insurance is the amount of knowledge that has gone into the production of your product but do things like bumpy cornish roads add to the stresses?

Have you posted a thread or have a web page I can look at for info as I imagine you have had to repeat yourself loads in talking about this!

Thanks, james

(Do you need any building work done in exchange for discounts )

 

[h17och]

i will let bill ansa most your questions but i will stand for bill on his mani.

agreed...ive not used one but i believe its a good way to go due to cost and material. thin material is touch and go and this mani isnt thin material. iirc its 5mm thick cast stainless bends.

the 5mm walls are the way to go for road cars....even many track cars (just weight dependant).

also, bill has just opened his new workshop/garage. so he aint going no where fast if it does come to a warrenty claim. hope you dont mind me saying that bill

i have already looked into buyin this mani if mine goes again.....

'sir crack alot' HoocH

 

[fat_tony11]

thanks hooch.

5mm sounds beefy which is good!

Please dont take this the wrong way as i wouldnt EXPECT it to crack but what is the warranty bill?

How long is expected delivery after a confirmed order?

What DP will you use on the a3 quattro and how much?

I think the time to draw the money out is aproaching, im sure my turbo is sounding a bit different after a hardish drive tonight...... uh oh

Thanks again

 

[fat_tony11]

And im really hoping your manifold doesnt let you down again hooch, your car is awesome and without trying to sound cheesy, im sure other people will agree, its inspiring too, hats off

 

[h17och]

thanks for that mate i am very very proud of what i have acheived and like to think it gives the get up and go to other people.

good luck on your build, hope i have uncovered a few problems that you can aviod

where are you from?

 

[fat_tony11]

Cornwall, dont think there are many fast cars about here, let alone VAG cars, unless anyone knows any different?

Did you want me to test drive yours or something? So I can um, assure the other forum members that its all real and you havent just sped up your videos in windows movie maker

 

[ibizacupra]

Im a bit scared of cracking issues like on hooches mani, i know you know your stuf though through reading countless posts for the last year!

Could you explain the differences of your manifold to a cast item? I think i know but im no pro! Is the spool rpm reduced? And does the turbo hold more boost for longer higher up the rpm range? Or am I confusing information?

I saw in one of your posts a picture of your mani coated in something, was that a ceramic coating? what are the advantages of that?

And what could I do to insure it against cracking? Obviously i know the best insurance is the amount of knowledge that has gone into the production of your product but do things like bumpy cornish roads add to the stresses?

Have you posted a thread or have a web page I can look at for info as I imagine you have had to repeat yourself loads in talking about this!

Thanks, james

(Do you need any building work done in exchange for discounts )

There are different schools of thought on tubular manifolds, their construction, and their reliability, perceived and actual..

Correct materials, correct fabrication methods and correct design all amount to a quality reliable manifold.

thickwall is often hailed as "the answer". Its not neccessarily true. I have a 1.2mm wall thickness manifold, made by Primary Designs which has been fine for 2 race seasons. Hooch on the other hand has a thin walled manifold made by someone else and there have been repeated problems unfortunately.

My manifold pictured is a thick wall manifold, and fabricated outside of the uk for me, but to my design layout. Its construction is back purged welded root welds and cap welded from stainless steel pipe & fittings in Sch40 thickness. Its downside is its weight form being thickwall is heavy compared to my PD manifold which is feather light. Price reflects the build & materials.

Warranty on the manifold is **subject to fitment of suitable engine mounts so engine flex cannot fatigue the setup. Its a reliable construction so no failure is expected but if in the event there is, I will warranty it for 2 years. **

tubular vs log manifold is favouring log in very low end spool terms, but as soon as the turbo is up to spool the tubular walks away in performance terms. Low angle merge collector is the significant difference here.

Delivery from order is 3-4 weeks as they are built to order to spec. T3 external gat, T3 no external gate and T25 no external gate

full-race manifolds say they have never had a manifold failure for example, and its construction and material choice is the same as my new one (I have both here and can easily compare)

hope this helps
regards
bill

 

[fat_tony11]

Good stuff, thanks for the info, what would you recomend in terms of engine mounts? Many thanks

 

[ibizacupra]

Vibratechnic ones or INA's density line mounts.. to stop the motor flapping about.

 

[INA]

full-race manifolds say they have never had a manifold failure for example

Full-Race lied
2 longitudinal manifolds for the 1.8T were resent to FR after 19 months or so to have some welds repaired.
Reality is this:
welded manifolds will always crack.For some it takes 2 months,for some it takes 5 years.If you want a tubular manifold and have the money for it then get a inconnel manifold made.Those will outlast the vehicle.
As always cast is the safest way to go.

 

[fat_tony11]

Hmmm, now I have confussed opinions people might say "you shouldnt do it if you cant afford it" but i dont think I could afford to buy things twice, i know there will be breakages with a BT but if I insure myself against big payouts by employing other peoples experience and opinions by choosing hopefully the 'best' option, I might be able to avoid things like hooches miss fortune with his manifold.

What is the cost of an inconnel mani? Cheaper than a JBS lifetime warrantied one?

Can you suggest a better option for a RHD friendly, top mounted, externally gated T3 manifold Issam?

Thanks again for the input.

 

[tashacupra]

What is the cost of an inconnel mani? Cheaper than a JBS lifetime warrantied one?

Hi, a custom inconnel mani will cost big £ to do, its very expensive as a base material to buy and you would need a very experianced fabrictore to work with it as its not nice stuff to weld. PD who built Bills race mani have the experiance etc, but you will pay top $ for there services.

If you to go for a custom tubular mani and you budget will not quite stretch to inconnel but you have more to play with than the cost of a standard 316L mani, ask the fabricator to make it out of 304H, 309H, 310H, 316H or 321H all these are veriations of austenetic stainless steel but The "H" denotes they are high temp versions with a max working temp of approx 1100-1750'c (the ferrite levels will start to rise in 316L at approx 600-750'c ).

With regards to cast manifolds from what i have seen they still crack after time, but imo they are harder to repaire than a tubular mani due to the difficulties assosiated with welding cast, bit if you do go down that road find a mani with the highest Nickle content possible as this will help it to withstand the heat and help prevent cracking.

Hope that helps a bit,

Tasha.

 

[Feel]

fabrictore

Does it have to be an Italian?



Sorry, couldn't help mysel. I'll get my coat.

 

[ibizacupra]

Full-Race lied
2 longitudinal manifolds for the 1.8T were resent to FR after 19 months or so to have some welds repaired.
Reality is this:
welded manifolds will always crack.For some it takes 2 months,for some it takes 5 years.If you want a tubular manifold and have the money for it then get a inconnel manifold made.Those will outlast the vehicle.
As always cast is the safest way to go.

cast crack too Sam....... as do turbo housings
nature of the beast

you cannot make blanket statement, as with poor tune, excessive egts etc etc you will make anything fail.

Thats reality my friend.

 

[ibizacupra]

Hmmm, now I have confussed opinions people might say "you shouldnt do it if you cant afford it" but i dont think I could afford to buy things twice, i know there will be breakages with a BT but if I insure myself against big payouts by employing other peoples experience and opinions by choosing hopefully the 'best' option, I might be able to avoid things like hooches miss fortune with his manifold.

What is the cost of an inconnel mani? Cheaper than a JBS lifetime warrantied one?

Can you suggest a better option for a RHD friendly, top mounted, externally gated T3 manifold Issam?

Thanks again for the input.

get this straight in your mind..
lifetime warrantied is not life guarantee it will not fail, but that in the event it will be repaired or replaced (repaired most likely)

 

[ibizacupra]

Hi, a custom inconnel mani will cost big £ to do, its very expensive as a base material to buy and you would need a very experianced fabrictore to work with it as its not nice stuff to weld. PD who built Bills race mani have the experiance etc, but you will pay top $ for there services.

If you to go for a custom tubular mani and you budget will not quite stretch to inconnel but you have more to play with than the cost of a standard 316L mani, ask the fabricator to make it out of 304H, 309H, 310H, 316H or 321H all these are veriations of austenetic stainless steel but The "H" denotes they are high temp versions with a max working temp of approx 1100-1750'c (the ferrite levels will start to rise in 316L at approx 600-750'c ).

With regards to cast manifolds from what i have seen they still crack after time, but imo they are harder to repaire than a tubular mani due to the difficulties assosiated with welding cast, bit if you do go down that road find a mani with the highest Nickle content possible as this will help it to withstand the heat and help prevent cracking.

Hope that helps a bit,

Tasha.

PD version of my manifold in inconel was double the price, to £2400
the 321 stainless version they made for me (thin wall remember) was thrashed for 2 years racing and remains fine.

PD do red bull racing F1 headers, and after x hours of racing they go back for check/repair.. (exotic materials... and they fail)

Construction of manifold and its method seems to be the most significant aspect to reliability, combined with suitable tuning to stay within material specs, they can be as reliable (or not) as a cast manifold.

Onlky way is to research for manifold type and gauge good or bad PR for it..

ATP would not come out well in this respect of course as an example

 

[h17och]

pd quoted my £2000 for a custom inconnel mani

 

[fat_tony11]

Does it have to be an Italian?



Sorry, couldn't help mysel. I'll get my coat.

Haha

get this straight in your mind..
lifetime warrantied is not life guarantee it will not fail, but that in the event it will be repaired or replaced (repaired most likely)

Fair comment, so other than being gutted i have to pull it to bits but no so much as it will be v band, can a crack genearlly be welded down the line if it ever happened?

I mean, if i have 400bhp, i expect to be fixing stuff after a while, it would be nieve to think it will be as reliable as a new car anyway