What would you do.... (quite long)

[Belly]

I'd like you thoughts on the following:

We bought our Altea about 9 months ago from a Seat dealership. All went well for a while, but then the car has had to be returned 3 times in the last 6 months due to different airbag problems.... frustrating but fixable. This isn't my main cause of issue.

Whilst on holiday this summer, we got slapped with a 'out of date' tax fine on our car. Thats funny we thought, we've never had a SORN reminder, but yes when we looked, the tax disc was indeed overdue. So we ring up the DVLA to ask them why we had not recieved a SORN notice and how we could tax the car whilst away on holiday and not in possession of the relevant docs (MOT, insurance certificante, etc) and they reveal that the car isn't actually registered to us!!! Very worrying.

Next we ring the dealer... who says it isn't registered to them either.... later in the day after a number of irate phonecalls, it transpires it is still registered to them, albeit via their investment company. We ask 'how did this happen?' and after further 'to-ing and fro-ing' it is revealed that the completed but un-submitted log book form is still in their files. The salesman / admin staff obviously not having been bothered to send it in. (We didn't notice the fact that we hadn't recieved a log book, as shortly after buying the car my wife went into hospital for a number of weeks and to be honest we forgot all about it). It then of course became clear that we were stuck with an un-taxed car, which we couldn't tax until the dealer sent in the form and the DVLA could process everything - the DVLA confirmed that we should not be driving the car on the road. (But we did anyway, well what can you do when 250 miles from home! )

When we get back home, we go to the delaer with our fine notice and to give them a roasting for all our incovenience. They try to fob it off, saying we should have noticed that the tax had run out. We replied that we hadn't recieved the SORN notice correspondence (obviously they had and had not done anything about it) and, in any event, we couldn't have taxed the car as it wasn't registered in our name, ergo the fine was their responsibility. Eventually very bregudgingly they agreed to pay the fine.

A week later we rang the fine agency - no the fine hadn't been paid, but we were now the registered keeper. We ring up the dealer who admit they haven't sent in payment. They then agree to send it off that day. Another 10 days later, still no payment and the fine reaches its deadline and we are forced to pay it by credit card to avoid further action from the police. Then another tax related fine notice arrives from the DVLA! We have to pay this as it is in pur name, there is no obvious appeals process and it is clear that the dealer can't be trusted. Thats £220 worth of fines that we have paid, plus the fact its now a matter of official record, pluss the stress on my wife in trying to get the dealer to do anything to resolve the situation.

Frankly I am really pissed off at their appalling lack of customer service and want some recompense. What do you guys suggest - a letter / phone call to SEAT UK, Citizens Advice? Any ideas, as I feel really ripped off on this, as it would never have happened if the original sales team had done their jobs properly..... which has then just been compounded by total ignorance by the dealer staff.

 

[PhilOfCas]

I bet you're well f off.

Tricky one this as it's you who's seen (or should have) the date expiring on the tax disc in your window, you can't really argue on that one ??.

Also, the log book is also pretty much in your best interest to ensure you have got it, i'd have thought that you should have filled the transfer ownership details on it at the time of picking up the car and took away the tear off strip with you ?.

Their only liability is that they would have been sent the SORN reminder and failed to act on it, that's maybe why they agreed to pay the fine in the first place and in view of this any subsequent fines are probably their responsibility.

I'd just speak with them and explain the situation in full, i wouldn't go in 'guns a blazin', but just asking/pleading for them to see you as a valued customer that's been let down and in need of some help. I'm sure they'd rather have you going round tellng people how they've helped you rather than you telling people that they couldn't give a monkeys.


Hope you get it sorted.

 

[Viking]

Legally speaking, the registered keeper is responsible for the fine for the vehicle not being taxed. I can't understand how the fine came to you in the first place, but I certainly wouldn't have paid it.

 

[muddyboots]

I'm guessing the fine was handed out "on the street" rather than by post.

But interesting point - if the dealer were still the registered keeper, they were liable for the fine ?

 

[JonTelfer]

What would the position have been with insurance? They do seem to ask about the registered keeper.
As for Seat UK, my guess is that it'll be fobbed off as something between you and your dealer. Perhaps push for a free service from the dealership concerned?

Good luck though.

 

[Belly]

I'm guessing the fine was handed out "on the street" rather than by post.

But interesting point - if the dealer were still the registered keeper, they were liable for the fine ?

Yes it was a hand delivered fine - which is why we passed it on. We then subsequently recieved another fine direct from DVLAin our name for the same offence. This beacuse the regisration had transfered in the interim.

As the DVLA refuse to discuss such issues on the phone it would have made one hell of a complicated letter so i paid it and will take it up with the dealer / SEAT.

 

[Belly]

I bet you're well f off.

Tricky one this as it's you who's seen (or should have) the date expiring on the tax disc in your window, you can't really argue on that one ??.

Also, the log book is also pretty much in your best interest to ensure you have got it, i'd have thought that you should have filled the transfer ownership details on it at the time of picking up the car and took away the tear off strip with you ?.

Too right I am!

Can't argue with the tax disc thing - i am 'guilty' of that!

We did fill in / sign the form at the dealers and took the tear off strip. Its just they then didn't post the actual form!

Its the total lack of interest that annoys me - along with the lying about dealing with the fines. Incompetence reigns and they will never see me again..... although the free service idea was one that had crossed my mind. Trouble is, would I want to let them loose on my car, given their general couldn't give a toss attitude.

 

[S8N]

Name and shame the dealer

 

[Tell]

Do well to change the dealer and be done with it, although obviously not having the ownership paper work is kind of interesting.... and according to Honest John in the Daily Telegraph they don't often send out reminders these days but just nab you after your disc runs out. How to do it on holiday, it's all computerised and I re-taxed mine at Iguazu Falls in Argentina last year at the allotted interval. MOT certificates are also tied up as well + insurance so there is no need to pop into a post office these days, just remember when to do it.

 

[Belly]

Do well to change the dealer and be done with it, although obviously not having the ownership paper work is kind of interesting.... and according to Honest John in the Daily Telegraph they don't often send out reminders these days but just nab you after your disc runs out. How to do it on holiday, it's all computerised and I re-taxed mine at Iguazu Falls in Argentina last year at the allotted interval. MOT certificates are also tied up as well + insurance so there is no need to pop into a post office these days, just remember when to do it.

You are right it is computerised these days and I've done my audi by computer for the last 2 years. Unfortunately the DVLA system is such that if the tax lapses then you do have to present documents.

Anyhoo, thats in the past now. Suffice it to say it will be an easy date to remember next year.

And the dealer? Lets just say if you are in Stockport, keep a "look out" and keep well clear!

 

[PhilOfCas]

having read the above, i'm firmly on your side now, the dealer just couldn't give a toss, i'd steer clear, get a dealer recommendation from the lads ( & lass's) on here, still seak your money back from them though

 

[Rallye Dale]

And the dealer? Lets just say if you are in Stockport, keep a "look out" and keep well clear!

Thats where i got mine from,tbh had no problems with them,everyone has differant experiances with differant garages

Which salesman was it




Imho i think its down to you at the end of the day that you are responsible for taxing the car,though Lookers should have sent the V5 off,they should go halves with you

 

[Hobbit]

And the dealer? Lets just say if you are in Stockport, keep a "look out" and keep well clear!

I live in Stockport and went to Lookers for my present Altea last year as I had two previous Renault cars from them, both new in the last five years. The Renault part is in a different building and seems fine.

The Seat franchise part of Lookers is a complete joke. The same salesman I got on two different occasions was more interested in making money from selling 'gap' insuarance and car paintwork sealing products than giving me a good discount for cash.

Ended up buying from David Cook in Oldham and the difference is like night and day. The service, customer care and attitude from them is great.

Hope you get something out Lookers but the way they perform I would not not hold my breath.

Lookers in Stockport are defintly not to be recommended in my humble opinion!

 

[m4ttl]

Couldn't agree more about Lookers in Stockport. Have had the misfortune of using them a number of times in the past and each time have come away feeling anything from frustrated to apopletic.

The fact they have held onto the log book is actually 1) in breach of SMMT regulations, and 2) illegal, as DVLA require all changes of registered keeper to be advised to Swansea "as soon as possible".

I would press extremely hard for more than the fines and a free service - recompense for time, stress and inconvinience is not out of the question. Get hold of the Dealer Principal, ascertain the name of the Chairman and Chief Exec of the Lookers Group before speaking to him, keep dropping their names, and mention lots of times the words illegal, Trading Standards, What Car legal advice, local press, etc. and tell them to be "creative" with the compensation. Oh, and it's never a threat, it's a promise!!

 

[muddyboots]

Ahh, Lookers in Stockport.
I had the misfortune of dealing with them back when I had a Rover, I see things haven't improved since (it's the same building/people isn't it...).
I remember teaching their parts guy how to use Etka

The Renault part of Lookers Stockport, on the other hand, had the most helpful parts people I've ever dealt with.

 

[jtmac]

When I bought my car the sales woman gave me the the slip to post off my trade in and said that It's best if I post it because she said that they would just bin it. They also took quite alot of nagging to settle the finance on that car too. That was JCT Bradford who are now no longer SEAT dealers.

 

[Tell]

Well our friend was without the owners documentation if you base ownership on who the car is registered with... you could say responsibility rest with him.

On Lookers group they saved me loads when they never serviced my old Citreon correctly, but when I took it to another dealer after they pulled out of a dealership, I got lumbered with a big bill of all the things they had failed to pick up over about two years. One supposes if you only keep the car for two years flogging it on with the front joints gone, radiator leaking etc has saved you money. On one occasion the young mechanic driving me home pointed out a garage and said 'this is a nice little garage' aka you should get your car done there. The penny didn't drop for some months latter, after the garage closed, but I did wonder why he said that, so I too have been non plussed with the Lookers group.