EPC Light / Won’t start

[EllFirth]

Hi all, I’ve just serviced my mk1 2005 cupra R 225 and after service the EPC light came on and car wouldn’t start. Then after few times trying it fired up, later last night a few hours after service it cut out on my and wouldn’t start again, now it’s on and off if it will start on me, a coil pack went down so I replaced that, but seems to keep bringing up EPC light and cad also has a boost cut / surge in 2nd and 3rd at around 3.5-4k revs, I’m new to 20Vt can anyone help, thankyou

 

[Alexis27]

EPC light should throw a fault code if you get a reader.

Similar symptoms for me was the crankshaft sensor (get a proper Bosch one if your fault code indicates it's the problem)

 

[EllFirth]

EPC light should throw a fault code if you get a reader.

Similar symptoms for me was the crankshaft sensor (get a proper Bosch one if your fault code indicates it's the problem)

Yes mate It threw a throttle control fault up I got the code and it came back to crank sensor think it was g28, I’ll get one and try it thanks for your reply

 

[Alexis27]

Nice one. It's weird when it goes because it tends to start up when cold but not when warm.

 

[EllFirth]

Nice one. It's weird when it goes because it tends to start up when cold but not when warm.

Yes 100% what it did I fired it up today at 4am -2 outside let it warm up did 6 miles on motorway to work turned it off to open the gates then it wouldn’t fire again

 

[mph]

I think I have the same symptoms as decribed here...

I'm stuck in traffic when suddenly the engine cuts out and the battery light comes on. I try to start the ignition and nothing, no turnover. I wait 10 secs and try again, this time after a bit of splutter it starts up. When I drive on I notice a lack of power in the high revs, as if there's a limiter on, then suddenly the EPC light comes on.

On the return journey, it starts ok, no lights on the dash, then after a while the EPC light comes on again and I notice lack of power over ~4000 revs. Then crusing down the motorway, suddenly the dash starts beeping, the oil light flashes red and the rev counter drops to zero for about 10 secs, then returns to normal (I'm doing around 70mph whilst this happens) and the oil light goes off. I know the oil level is fine as I checked it before the journey.

These are the codes that VCDS came up with:

17863 - Exhaust Gas Temp Sensor 1 (G235): Implausible Signal
P1455 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17704 P1296 Cooling system malfunction (I recently had the aircon re-gassed)
P1296 - 35-00 - Please Register/Activate
16706 P0322 Ign./Distributor Eng.Speed Inp.Circ No Signal
P0322 - 35-00 - Please Register/Activate
16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) Bank 2 Malfunction
P0011 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16705 P0321 Ign./Distributor Eng.Speed Inp.Circ Range/Performance
P0321 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
01039 - Coolant Temperature Sensor (G2)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

Are these the same you had and what did you do to fix?

 

[Alexis27]

Looks like one of those things where one fault causes a cascade of others.
Camshaft problems is often the sensor - see

Coolant temp sensor is easy and cheap, so I'd change that too. Febi Bilstein one works fine https://www.amazon.co.uk/febi-bilstein-32510-Temperature-retaining/dp/B006DHZ1HG

If all that works you'll next need to look at the exhaust temp sensor as it'll be running horrifically rich if that is faulty.

 

[mty12345]

16706 P0322 Ign./Distributor Eng.Speed Inp.Circ No Signal

Yep, that code is for the crank sensor, so i'd definitely change that first off.

16706/P0322/000802 - Ross-Tech Wiki

wiki.ross-tech.com

There is a high chance the camshaft code is because it didn't know where it was in relation to the crankshaft. I wouldn't change the cam sensor until you have replaced the crank sensor (Officially called Engine speed sensor G28) Likely there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[Alexis27]

Crankshaft sensor usually causes hot start problems though not cut outs?

Worth changing though since both of mine only lasted 85,000 miles.

 

[mty12345]

Crankshaft sensor usually causes hot start problems though not cut outs?

Worth changing though since both of mine only lasted 85,000 miles.

The OP has both a code for the crankshaft sensor, and he said his Rev counter drops to zero when it happens. Not only does the RPM signal come directly from that crank sensor, but the ECU also uses that info to decide when to fire both the injectors and the coil packs! (hence why it won't start without that info)

If the crankshaft position is intermittantly being lost then during that time neither the injectors or the coil packs will fire, hence causing the engine to stall until the info returns.

 

[mph]

Thanks for advice guys... so just to be clear, I would need 4 sensors here?

1. crank sensor
2. camshaft sensor
3. coolant sensor
4. exhaust gas temp sensor

but it's possible 2-4 might be a result of 1 failing?

 

[mty12345]

No worries mate.

I'd start by visually checking the wiring and plug to the crank sensor, if no signs of fraying or corroision etc, then replace the sensor. Clear all fault codes and see which ones come back.

Number 2 is possibly because of the crank sensor, i'd change that first then if you still have a fault here change the cam sensor too.

Number 3 unrelated. Coolant sensors are only £15-£20 and an easy DIY job.

Number 4 is also unrelated. It's an important sensor for the safety of the engine, and not having it working will likely limit the performance. If you still have this fault after changing the crank sensor, then it needs changing too. fairly difficult job though

 

[rdraheim]

30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

This stands out to me as main relay or bad ground connection.

 

[Nam-uk]

opieoils on there ebay page sell an ngk cam sensor for 23.50 on my tdi you can get to them pretty easy as there at the front not sure on the 225 bam, the car ground is under the battery there's a few grounds there and can corrode, seems tobe a common issue..

 

[andylong]

Thanks for advice guys... so just to be clear, I would need 4 sensors here?

1. crank sensor
2. camshaft sensor
3. coolant sensor
4. exhaust gas temp sensor

but it's possible 2-4 might be a result of 1 failing?

Yes but all 4 sensors failing is unlikely. Start with the crank sensor.

Earthing faults happen if sensors are falling apart relays are easy to check and replace, cheap too.

 

[mty12345]

30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

This stands out to me as main relay or bad ground connection.

I don't see anything there to suggest that, certainly not the main relay! It's simply the second part of the coolant temp code, and that's a very common code when the coolant sensor starts to fail internally. I'd say there is a 95% it's the sensor itself, or a 5% chance its the wiring on the connector.

01039 - Coolant Temperature Sensor (G2)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

If it was the main relay you would lose all electrical power, including the lights on the dash. The OP stated that he had oil pressure light and beeping, and that the only thing that dropped out was the tacho. The coolant temp sensor is two parralel thermistors, and the ECU just measures the resistance across them the same as a multimeter would. The 'ground' side of the circuit is via the ECU, not a main block ground.

The OP's problem is almost certainly his crank sensor or crank sensor wiring at the plug (the cutting out issue) and likely his EGT sensor causing the boost limit. The coolant temp sensor can be ignored until he sorts the other two.

 

[Nam-uk]

I don't see anything there to suggest that, certainly not the main relay! It's simply the second part of the coolant temp code, and that's a very common code when the coolant sensor starts to fail internally. I'd say there is a 95% it's the sensor itself, or a 5% chance its the wiring on the connector.

01039 - Coolant Temperature Sensor (G2)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

If it was the main relay you would lose all electrical power, including the lights on the dash. The OP stated that he had oil pressure light and beeping, and that the only thing that dropped out was the tacho. The coolant temp sensor is two parralel thermistors, and the ECU just measures the resistance across them the same as a multimeter would. The 'ground' side of the circuit is via the ECU, not a main block ground.

The OP's problem is almost certainly his crank sensor or crank sensor wiring at the plug (the cutting out issue) and likely his EGT sensor causing the boost limit. The coolant temp sensor can be ignored until he sorts the other two.

I've read most of the time its the plug side over the years mad that , the temp side might be just corrosion on the too prongs in the expansion bottle they can be scraped with a screw driver if not the sensor

 

[rdraheim]

I don't see anything there to suggest that, certainly not the main relay! It's simply the second part of the coolant temp code, and that's a very common code when the coolant sensor starts to fail internally. I'd say there is a 95% it's the sensor itself, or a 5% chance its the wiring on the connector.

01039 - Coolant Temperature Sensor (G2)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

If it was the main relay you would lose all electrical power, including the lights on the dash. The OP stated that he had oil pressure light and beeping, and that the only thing that dropped out was the tacho. The coolant temp sensor is two parralel thermistors, and the ECU just measures the resistance across them the same as a multimeter would. The 'ground' side of the circuit is via the ECU, not a main block ground.

The OP's problem is almost certainly his crank sensor or crank sensor wiring at the plug (the cutting out issue) and likely his EGT sensor causing the boost limit. The coolant temp sensor can be ignored until he sorts the other two.

I don't have the experience on the EA211 as much as I'd like, hence I bought one.

Thanks for your suggestions.

I just find it hard to believe that the car was running well and then more than two sensors need sorting in parallel.

I think that the OP should have a quick look here as well:

Random electric problems in several modules [SOLVED]

Hi, I am having an strange problem, that I might have found what is the damn gnome doing it and hope it helps others not to get crazy looking for it. At first the engine fans started to run fast like when the usually start at high temps, but they wont stop, so temps goes down from normal 90c...

www.seatcupra.net

but if the four sensors are inexpensive (< £100 total) and prone to failure, it's simply preventative maintenance to change them anyway and we where they end up.

 

[mty12345]

I just find it hard to believe that the car was running well and then more than two sensors need sorting in parallel.

The only codes that trigger a 'check engine light' are ones which directly affect emmisions. (MAF,MAP, misfires, lambda sensors or anything else that causes the engine to run in open-loop mode) The coolant sensor, egt sensor and the other odds and ends do not set a check engine light and have almost certainly been there since before this incident arose.

As i said earlier it's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MAIN RELAY!!!!! All you are doing is sending the op on a wild goose chase, when all he needs to do is replace his crank sensor or fix the wiring on it's connector.

The other codes can be sorted out afterwards

 

[rdraheim]

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MAIN RELAY!!!!!

OP, please listen to this as I was out of order with my previous suggestions.

Good luck with your fix