Front and rear pads - the same?

[hawkx617]

Hi All,

Having done a bit of digging and thinking, I've decided not to bother upping my front disc size from 288mm to 312mm. Cost and hassle aside, I just don't think the extra 20mm is going to make any difference.

Instead, I'm going to put on some nice yellowstuff pads (and maybe some EBC discs too, we'll see!). On the rear, I have some decent Brembo discs and pads, that are working really well. I spoke with EBC and the guy reckoned that I should change front and rear pads, to avoid an imbalance regarding braking forces, bite point, etc.

Do we reckon this is necessary, on an 180bhp Leon? My VAG indie reckons it'll be fine - he runs a 400bhp hybrid turbo VW Transporter with DS2500 on the front and stock pads on the rear!

 

[thespicemustflow]

Absolutely not required - they'll be fine. Something like 80% of total braking force comes from the front brakes on a normal FWD car. (You obviously never have different pads across an axle, but front to rear, not a problem.)

That's just EBC trying to sell you more stuff!

 

[hawkx617]

Absolutely not required - they'll be fine. Something like 80% of total braking force comes from the front brakes on a normal FWD car. (You obviously never have different pads across an axle, but front to rear, not a problem.)

That's just EBC trying to sell you more stuff!

Yeah, that was my thoughts too - especially seeing as lots of modded cars (a Cupra on the Nurburgring in a recent video comes to mind) purposely have differing pads.

I wonder, is anyone able to give me some advice on bedding them in? EBC info is here. The second option is impossible in a VAG car due to the throttle instantly cutting when any brake is applied. I'm not keen on the first one, mainly as I don't fancy the conversation with the copper who catches me doing 80-20mph stops on the M3 at midnight!

I'm relatively new to cars (I'm only 20) - I come from the world of MTB's where bedding a brake setup in is very important (but a lot easier to do), and am just unsure how important it is with some decent road pads.

TIA!

 

[thespicemustflow]

For yellowstuff, just drive normally to be honest, they'll be fine. Have used them before on a few cars and just followed my normal bedding-in process and never had an issue with them.

My process has always been, drive it as you would do normally but be wary and concious of lighter braking/greater brake distance, then after 100 miles or so, throw the anchors on once or twice - done. (Which for me is normally, a quiet B road with no traffic in front or behind me, brake hard and heavy from 60-70mph to a full stop or a mega slow pace, say at a set of lights or whatever.)

Never had a problem (and lasted longer than my ownership of the car normally!)

One thing I would say for EBC pads, make sure they are nice and free (but not loose) in the carriers. I've had a few sets where the combination of rust jacking on the caliper carrier and some super thick paint/dipping on the pads has made them VERY tight, to the point i've had to gently sandpaper some layers off.

 

[hawkx617]

For yellowstuff, just drive normally to be honest, they'll be fine. Have used them before on a few cars and just followed my normal bedding-in process and never had an issue with them.

My process has always been, drive it as you would do normally but be wary and concious of lighter braking/greater brake distance, then after 100 miles or so, throw the anchors on once or twice - done. (Which for me is normally, a quiet B road with no traffic in front or behind me, brake hard and heavy from 60-70mph to a full stop or a mega slow pace, say at a set of lights or whatever.)

Never had a problem (and lasted longer than my ownership of the car normally!)

One thing I would say for EBC pads, make sure they are nice and free (but not loose) in the carriers. I've had a few sets where the combination of rust jacking on the caliper carrier and some super thick paint/dipping on the pads has made them VERY tight, to the point i've had to gently sandpaper some layers off.

Really helpful, thank you! I think I'll resist the urge to get new discs too - let's be honest, in a street car with below 300bhp, drilled/slotted/grooved rotors are just for looks Unless you count that slotted rotors prevent glazing (but also eat away at your pads).

Now just to decide on which wheels to get to match my new brakes... damn potholes.

 

[thespicemustflow]

Tell me about it. I have 18s on my FR and I'm really just waiting for the day I buckle or crack one, if not more.

And it's only gonna get worse as the UK gets poorer and heavy-ass electric vehicles get more common.

Think I might invest in a set of wheels with appropriate UK road friendly tyres...

 

[hawkx617]

Tell me about it. I have 18s on my FR and I'm really just waiting for the day I buckle or crack one, if not more.

And it's only gonna get worse as the UK gets poorer and heavy-ass electric vehicles get more common.

Think I might invest in a set of wheels with appropriate UK road friendly tyres...

View attachment 41560

I was forced into a pothole last week - buckled my front wheel, cracked the rear, slashed the front tyre and damaged the rear too. A real shame as I quite liked the 18s I have (the nice, sweeping 'performance' ones - probably the same as you), and SEAT Direct Parts want £600 per wheel after postage... Thinking about some REVO RFO18s, but want silver, so if they can't find me a set then it'll have to be Bola or (wallet wince) OZ.

I think the suspension and everything is okay (car goes in a straight line and nothing has fallen off yet), but we'll have to see once it's lifted and everything is off - I've bent a track rod doing much less. Just waiting to be told where to go by the council after they read my claim...

My Leon had 47k on it when I bought it just over a year ago as basically my first car. I've realised driving isn't like Forza - you can park away from everyone and some tool will still find a way to dent your door! Not sure I'll ever buy a brand new car tbh, it's just not worth it.

 

[thespicemustflow]

Check out Facebook Marketplace and Gumtree, quite often you'll find people selling *some* but not a full set of wheels for a good price. People that have buckled one wheel, realised a single replacement was too expensive, so just bought a whole new set and are now selling three wheels for like 100 quid. I've done this a fair few times and picked up absolute bargains because of it.

No, it certainly isn't like Forza - more like Grand Theft Auto 4. I've been driving 13 years and owned about 80 cars (sadly im not even joking. I'm a mechanical engineer to trade so I usually buy crap, fix it, use it then move it on) but decided to treat myself to my current 2016 Leon, which is by a LARGE margin the newest and most expensive car I've ever had. Sometimes I miss driving about in crap, because I don't feel bad when someone hits it with a door, or scrapes a trolley down the side of it, or I fall into a pothole the size of Australia.

Sadly, the city i live has implemented a strict LEZ and my usual car of choice (the sub-£1000 bracket) is now very much not welcome/doesn't exist. So here I am in the relevant future of a 2013-era Mk3 Leon!

 

[hawkx617]

Check out Facebook Marketplace and Gumtree, quite often you'll find people selling *some* but not a full set of wheels for a good price. People that have buckled one wheel, realised a single replacement was too expensive, so just bought a whole new set and are now selling three wheels for like 100 quid. I've done this a fair few times and picked up absolute bargains because of it.

No, it certainly isn't like Forza - more like Grand Theft Auto 4. I've been driving 13 years and owned about 80 cars (sadly im not even joking. I'm a mechanical engineer to trade so I usually buy crap, fix it, use it then move it on) but decided to treat myself to my current 2016 Leon, which is by a LARGE margin the newest and most expensive car I've ever had. Sometimes I miss driving about in crap, because I don't feel bad when someone hits it with a door, or scrapes a trolley down the side of it, or I fall into a pothole the size of Australia.

Sadly, the city i live has implemented a strict LEZ and my usual car of choice (the sub-£1000 bracket) is now very much not welcome/doesn't exist. So here I am in the relevant future of a 2013-era Mk3 Leon!

I am/have been toying with the idea of that. I'm always nervous though, buying something as important as a wheel, with no history or anything. I found one for sale, however haven't been able to find a pair (aside from one mine set for I think £3,500!!!).

I learnt in a 2007 VW Fox. It had 73bhp, a heater, two collapsed seats, a failing steering pump, taped up windows (that would fall inside the door panel during roundabouts and half a missing dashboard/door cards. I miss driving around home (SE London) in it - didn't give a crap where I parked it, or if it was even locked as nobody wanted to go near it!

I think the issue now seems to be everyone finances/leases their cars, so they have a lesser appreciation/value of cars, as it's only with them for 36 months. I paid cash at a main dealer for mine (which at 19 was a big deal!), and I always make an effort to park it far away from everyone else. Someone has still managed to put a golf ball sized dent in the quarter panel though, christ knows how!

I also don't envy all these X3Ms and stuff with 22 inch wheels - I can only imagine the ride!

 

[Walone]

I am/have been toying with the idea of that. I'm always nervous though, buying something as important as a wheel, with no history or anything. I found one for sale, however haven't been able to find a pair (aside from one mine set for I think £3,500!!!).

I learnt in a 2007 VW Fox. It had 73bhp, a heater, two collapsed seats, a failing steering pump, taped up windows (that would fall inside the door panel during roundabouts and half a missing dashboard/door cards. I miss driving around home (SE London) in it - didn't give a crap where I parked it, or if it was even locked as nobody wanted to go near it!

I think the issue now seems to be everyone finances/leases their cars, so they have a lesser appreciation/value of cars, as it's only with them for 36 months. I paid cash at a main dealer for mine (which at 19 was a big deal!), and I always make an effort to park it far away from everyone else. Someone has still managed to put a golf ball sized dent in the quarter panel though, christ knows how!

I also don't envy all these X3Ms and stuff with 22 inch wheels - I can only imagine the ride!

Have you tried eBay for wheels?

 

[hawkx617]

I have - there are a couple of options that haven't been welded or anything, however it's my 21st in a few weeks and I'm thinking about treating myself.

Personally, I'm just not keen on eBay wheels or anything... having been a passenger in a car during a blowout as a result of a cracked rim when I was younger (hello barrier, fancy seeing you cave my door in), I'd rather just get a new set of wheels - especially as I can get them for a lower price than retail...

 

[Walone]

I have - there are a couple of options that haven't been welded or anything, however it's my 21st in a few weeks and I'm thinking about treating myself.

Personally, I'm just not keen on eBay wheels or anything... having been a passenger in a car during a blowout as a result of a cracked rim when I was younger (hello barrier, fancy seeing you cave my door in), I'd rather just get a new set of wheels - especially as I can get them for a lower price than retail...

I've bought spare rims via eBay a couple of times, no problems at all, they were in excellent condition.

 

[thespicemustflow]

I am/have been toying with the idea of that. I'm always nervous though, buying something as important as a wheel, with no history or anything. I found one for sale, however haven't been able to find a pair (aside from one mine set for I think £3,500!!!).

Think you'll be fine. I've done it COUNTLESS times and only ever been stung once. (Bought a set of BMW E46 wheels which had a very subtle dent in one of them that I didn't notice until I brought them home)

Just make sure you give them a good look over, look for cracks, dents, buckles, welds, curious locations/quantities of wheel weights, that sort of thing. Bring a torch and a cloth to clean up the inside since they are usually super dirty and hide damage.

I wish I still had the photo, but some years ago I bought a Subaru Outback, 2008, loved it dearly and after a few weeks driving I noticed a very weird shudder at certain speeds. Assumed wheels were out of balance or a tyre was going bad, but ignored it for a bit, kept driving. Then one day after a good 75mph motorway run, i came home and went right, let's check this properly, and to my horror, four of the five spokes holding one of the wheels together, looked like this: (not my photo)

 

[SuperV8]

Absolutely not required - they'll be fine. Something like 80% of total braking force comes from the front brakes on a normal FWD car. (You obviously never have different pads across an axle, but front to rear, not a problem.)

That's just EBC trying to sell you more stuff!

Yes there is more braking force on the front axle - BUT rear axle brakes are designed smaller!
Modern cars rear brakes can actually run hotter than the fronts, in testing I have see over 700°C on the rear! vs the front axle at 500°C

 

[SuperV8]

Yeah, that was my thoughts too - especially seeing as lots of modded cars (a Cupra on the Nurburgring in a recent video comes to mind) purposely have differing pads.

I wonder, is anyone able to give me some advice on bedding them in? EBC info is here. The second option is impossible in a VAG car due to the throttle instantly cutting when any brake is applied. I'm not keen on the first one, mainly as I don't fancy the conversation with the copper who catches me doing 80-20mph stops on the M3 at midnight!

I'm relatively new to cars (I'm only 20) - I come from the world of MTB's where bedding a brake setup in is very important (but a lot easier to do), and am just unsure how important it is with some decent road pads.

TIA!

Don't drag your brakes (apply brake and accelerator at the same time).
To fully bed your brakes in you are trying to accomplish two things -
1. match both the pad surface to the disc surface at the micron level - this takes a little time 100+ miles.
2. put your friction material through a fade cycle. Once the friction has gone through a fade cycle your friction coefficient will recover and be more stable and predictable.
Find a quiet road and carryout 10 brake snubs from about 60-20mph using a reasonable deceleration - not an ABS level but more than just feathering your brakes. You may start to smell some friction material towards the end which is fine. If you see smoke you are braking to hard! Accelerate upto around 60 and do if again, repeat for 10 times.
Most important is not to come to a complete stop with your foot on the brake whilst carrying out this procedure as you can imprint the pad friction material on the discs (where friction material is unevenly deposited on the disc)
Once complete drive normally for a few miles to allow your brakes to cool.