Glow plug relay location - 2014 184 TDi

[BillyCool]

Might be a simple answer but my Google-Fu has let me down.

I've just had my glow plugs replaced and it was suggested that I also replace the glow plug relay. I've just bought one but don't know where to find it on my car.

I've tried lots of searches but not got a clear answer. My relpacement relay does not have any numbers printed on the top of it, like some of them do, and I don't want to start pulling random relays for the sake of it.

So - can someone please tell, where do I find the mythical glow plug relay?

Thank you!

 

[adam davies]

Might be a simple answer but my Google-Fu has let me down.

I've just had my glow plugs replaced and it was suggested that I also replace the glow plug relay. I've just bought one but don't know where to find it on my car.

I've tried lots of searches but not got a clear answer. My relpacement relay does not have any numbers printed on the top of it, like some of them do, and I don't want to start pulling random relays for the sake of it.

So - can someone please tell, where do I find the mythical glow plug relay?

Thank you!

Youtube passat tdi glow plug relay, there is a video and i would assume it will be in a similiar position on your car. Hope that helps

 

[SteveGSXR600K1]

I've found this which, I'm assuming, could be referred to as a relay. SEAT call it the 'automatic glow period control unit'.

 

[BillyCool]

Youtube passat tdi glow plug relay, there is a video and i would assume it will be in a similiar position on your car. Hope that helps

Thanks - had a look and it was more involved than I'd hoped. Need to remove the battery etc. Good news is, the other suggestion from @SteveGSXR600K1 worked and we're all good.

 

[BillyCool]

I've found this which, I'm assuming, could be referred to as a relay. SEAT call it the 'automatic glow period control unit'.

View attachment 32317

Thanks Steve - correct answer! My relay was numbered 511, hence my confusion. It turns out that the relay can be numbered 457, 511 or 527. It was harder than it should have been to compare OEM numbers. I've changed now it and the car hasn't blown up.

Thanks again.

 

[SuperV8]

Can I ask why you changed your glow plugs and the relay?

 

[BillyCool]

Can I ask why you changed your glow plugs and the relay?

I was having issues with cold (winter) starting/long cranking and the glow plugs seemed a good place to start. The car has nearly done 130,000 miles and they can apparently need checking/changing after about 100,000 miles.

The garage said that the glow plugs were pretty tired looking when they took them out. Apparently, if you have cold starting issues and the glow plugs are knackered, it can also impact the glow plug relay, so it's wise to change that as well (belts and braces).

There are the known issues with the 184 with long/slow cranking. Mine still seems to suffer from it and I have seen no real improvement, despite the new glow plugs.

If I pre-heat for longer, the car starts better. This is at odds with the fact I have new glow plugs and relay. Makes me think that there are still the other underlying issues ref the long cranking. I was told that if the issues persist, it could be the fuel bleed pipes (?) or whatever they are called. Could also be the fuel rail. Worse case, it could be the injectors. I'm not going down that route yet.

I might actually change the battery. According to the car and Carista, the battery never charges more than 60%. It was like that last winter, despite regular use. I think that the CCA might be a bit low and it's a more cost effective option than anything else at the moment. Certainly can't hurt. The older/original Varta battery in the car is CCA 680 but the newer model Varta is CCA 760. There is a post on here that someone solved their issues just by changing battery. It's worth a go.

I think the glow plugs benefitted from being changed, but it seems to have made sod all difference to my starting issues!

 

[SuperV8]

I was having issues with cold (winter) starting/long cranking and the glow plugs seemed a good place to start. The car has nearly done 130,000 miles and they can apparently need checking/changing after about 100,000 miles.

The garage said that the glow plugs were pretty tired looking when they took them out. Apparently, if you have cold starting issues and the glow plugs are knackered, it can also impact the glow plug relay, so it's wise to change that as well (belts and braces).

There are the known issues with the 184 with long/slow cranking. Mine still seems to suffer from it and I have seen no real improvement, despite the new glow plugs.

If I pre-heat for longer, the car starts better. This is at odds with the fact I have new glow plugs and relay. Makes me think that there are still the other underlying issues ref the long cranking. I was told that if the issues persist, it could be the fuel bleed pipes (?) or whatever they are called. Could also be the fuel rail. Worse case, it could be the injectors. I'm not going down that route yet.

I might actually change the battery. According to the car and Carista, the battery never charges more than 60%. It was like that last winter, despite regular use. I think that the CCA might be a bit low and it's a more cost effective option than anything else at the moment. Certainly can't hurt. The older/original Varta battery in the car is CCA 680 but the newer model Varta is CCA 760. There is a post on here that someone solved their issues just by changing battery. It's worth a go.

I think the glow plugs benefitted from being changed, but it seems to have made sod all difference to my starting issues!

Interesting, thanks.
Yes I too have an 'intermittent' long crank, but is still happening and its mild outside so I've knida ruled out my glow plugs? Can't hurt though. Only ever on the first cold start of the day - once started or warm it always starts within a second.

Changed my fuel filter even though the old one was only 2 years old but no difference.

The common reply with the VW TDI long crank issue is the diagnose dan youtube vid where the changes the VVT solenoid - I was about to order one and just thought i'd double check in my engine bay - and noticed I don't even have a blooming VVT solenoid Only EU6 CUNA engines have that and mines EU5.5 CUPA!

Also some reports of a new lift pump curing the lank crank issue - but from those same reports saying about a screeching noise from the pump which I don't have.

Maybe the pump module?

Battery could be a good shout - I'll monitor my voltages for a while. My stop start is working fine - I would have thought if my battery was getting a bit weak it would de-activate this?

 

[BillyCool]

Interesting, thanks.
Yes I too have an 'intermittent' long crank, but is still happening and its mild outside so I've knida ruled out my glow plugs? Can't hurt though. Only ever on the first cold start of the day - once started or warm it always starts within a second.

Changed my fuel filter even though the old one was only 2 years old but no difference.

The common reply with the VW TDI long crank issue is the diagnose dan youtube vid where the changes the VVT solenoid - I was about to order one and just thought i'd double check in my engine bay - and noticed I don't even have a blooming VVT solenoid Only EU6 CUNA engines have that and mines EU5.5 CUPA!

Also some reports of a new lift pump curing the lank crank issue - but from those same reports saying about a screeching noise from the pump which I don't have.

Maybe the pump module?

Battery could be a good shout - I'll monitor my voltages for a while. My stop start is working fine - I would have thought if my battery was getting a bit weak it would de-activate this?

LOL - I think we're in the same boat!

I'm also a CUPA.

As we know, it seems to be an known trait of the engine. Since mine had a nice long crank yesterday, I know it's not cold weather related. The glow plugs could well have been a red herring (and £600 lighter as a result).

Other things I have read suggest a lack of pressure or the system has not `pressurised` enough, hence the delay to start. Once it's up the pressure, it starts okay once warm. My garage said it could be a slight leak in the fuel system or something to do with getting the system up to pressure. Not really sure. They did say that the fuel bleed off/return (?) pipes can get blocked. Not sure how that influences things.

One guy on this forum tried most things and solved it with..... a new battery. I've just ordered one. So I'll see how that goes. I know my battery is only holding 60% charge and my SS doesn't always kick in, so might be related.

I don't think that there is one single solution. I'll try the battery and then get fuel lines/rail and these bleed/return pipes looked at.

Pump module could be an option - any low fuel pressure could impact starting, certainly based on what the garage said,

Such a complicated car..... My Mk1 PD engine was brilliant compared to this.

 

[adam davies]

LOL - I think we're in the same boat!

I'm also a CUPA.

As we know, it seems to be an known trait of the engine. Since mine had a nice long crank yesterday, I know it's not cold weather related. The glow plugs could well have been a red herring (and £600 lighter as a result).

Other things I have read suggest a lack of pressure or the system has not `pressurised` enough, hence the delay to start. Once it's up the pressure, it starts okay once warm. My garage said it could be a slight leak in the fuel system or something to do with getting the system up to pressure. Not really sure. They did say that the fuel bleed off/return (?) pipes can get blocked. Not sure how that influences things.

One guy on this forum tried most things and solved it with..... a new battery. I've just ordered one. So I'll see how that goes. I know my battery is only holding 60% charge and my SS doesn't always kick in, so might be related.

I don't think that there is one single solution. I'll try the battery and then get fuel lines/rail and these bleed/return pipes looked at.

Pump module could be an option - any low fuel pressure could impact starting, certainly based on what the garage said,

Such a complicated car..... My Mk1 PD engine was brilliant compared to this.

I too owned a 1.9tdi pd100. These engines were bullet proof never had one problem in 6 years of ownership and it was mapped to 130 it used to go like stink and it didnt have the crappy dpf. Bring back the oldschool cars.

 

[SuperV8]

I too owned a 1.9tdi pd100. These engines were bullet proof never had one problem in 6 years of ownership and it was mapped to 130 it used to go like stink and it didnt have the crappy dpf. Bring back the oldschool cars.

My Audi A4 Quattro was a 1.9 130PD with the usual remap to around 160 - used to think it went ok, torquey but narrow power band - that engine would be going on for years - shame about the rust around the rest of the car! No DPF either - but could see soot cloud whenever accelerating at dusk!
184 is much faster overall I think - but yes very/too complicated but I guess that's what get you £30 tax and 0-60 in 7.5secs! with 74mpg potential!

 

[SuperV8]

LOL - I think we're in the same boat!

I'm also a CUPA.

As we know, it seems to be an known trait of the engine. Since mine had a nice long crank yesterday, I know it's not cold weather related. The glow plugs could well have been a red herring (and £600 lighter as a result).

Other things I have read suggest a lack of pressure or the system has not `pressurised` enough, hence the delay to start. Once it's up the pressure, it starts okay once warm. My garage said it could be a slight leak in the fuel system or something to do with getting the system up to pressure. Not really sure. They did say that the fuel bleed off/return (?) pipes can get blocked. Not sure how that influences things.

One guy on this forum tried most things and solved it with..... a new battery. I've just ordered one. So I'll see how that goes. I know my battery is only holding 60% charge and my SS doesn't always kick in, so might be related.

I don't think that there is one single solution. I'll try the battery and then get fuel lines/rail and these bleed/return pipes looked at.

Pump module could be an option - any low fuel pressure could impact starting, certainly based on what the garage said,

Such a complicated car..... My Mk1 PD engine was brilliant compared to this.

Just checked and my battery is saying 70%SOC which seems quite good for an original battery on my 2015 built car. Had diagnostics plugged in on the way home and voltage seemed to be going up and down nicely depending on throttle state.

I'll have a look at my voltage first think tomorrow on my cold start.

Also see if I can see what the fuel pressures are doing during cold start?

 

[SteveGSXR600K1]

I have the CUNA engine and rarely get the long crank issue (touch wood!), but my friends CUPA engine gets it more often than not. I always get the ignition ready straightaway whilst I sort out my phone, steering wheel lock, etc. Assuming this delay helps the starting.

 

[BillyCool]

I too owned a 1.9tdi pd100. These engines were bullet proof never had one problem in 6 years of ownership and it was mapped to 130 it used to go like stink and it didnt have the crappy dpf. Bring back the oldschool cars.

I had mine chipped and it went okay. Had done 220,000 miles when I changed for my Mk3. Original exhaust and clutch as well.

 

[BillyCool]

Just checked and my battery is saying 70%SOC which seems quite good for an original battery on my 2015 built car. Had diagnostics plugged in on the way home and voltage seemed to be going up and down nicely depending on throttle state.

I'll have a look at my voltage first think tomorrow on my cold start.

Also see if I can see what the fuel pressures are doing during cold start?

My SOC cold is 60% (less in winter). New battery arrived today, so I'll try to fit it at the weekend. I'm not convinced that is the issue though. I think my fuel rail or bleed off has a slight leak and is letting air into the system. That's why it takes time to pressurise and slow start first thing, when it's been left a while.

I would certainly be interested if you can get your fuel pressures.

I'm just working my way through the list. I could say it's an education......but I won't.

 

[SteveGSXR600K1]

New battery arrived today, so I'll try to fit it at the weekend.

Not sure if you know or not, but you'll need something like OBDeleven to tell the system that you've put a new battery in. The charging system will be over compensating for the tired battery. If you replace the battery only, the system will continue to over compensate and eventually could damage the new battery.

 

[BillyCool]

Not sure if you know or not, but you'll need something like OBDeleven to tell the system that you've put a new battery in. The charging system will be over compensating for the tired battery. If you replace the battery only, the system will continue to over compensate and eventually could damage the new battery.

Thanks @SteveGSXR600K1 - I was aware of that. I should be able to do it with my Carista. My main question is whether it's okay to disconnect the battery, fit the new one and reconnect. I know that's what you used to do but I've also read that it's now a good idea to keep power to the car to prevent alarm issues and stereo codes? Not really sure if that is worth worrying about? I've seen a You Tube video where they change the battery with no issue.

Open to ideas though!

 

[SuperV8]

As luck would have it - when logging it started perfectly from cold!
Log on my battery voltages - including start up:
Interesting to see the jump in voltage whenever I was coasting - 'recouping' a little energy.
Dipped to 11.9v when starting - which seems reasonable to me?

My SOC - on a warm day after 8 hours parked.

Fuel pressure log (presuming rail pressure?) Again this was from a perfectly fine start - need to try and take a log when it 'long cranks'!
Never below 20,000kPa = 200bar = 2900psi
Max 141,840kPa = 1,418bar = 20,566.35psi

Also thought I'd log some DPF parameters:
17,107 seconds until it carried out a regen - so I make that 4 3/5 hours of driving. If averaging 45mph over those 4 3/4 hours that's a regen every 213miles?

Calculated filter content - got to 20,2g then initiated a regen - which brought it down to 8.45

Some interesting parameters:
Max DPF value = 80g
Guessing if it got to 45g it would put the light on telling me to go for a drive?
Mine got to 20.2 when it initiated a regen which brought my calculated content down to 8.45g

did this DPF carbon content check - which said i'm at 39.3g out of 80g limit - I have done around 110,000 miles so that would put my DPF life at 220,000 miles?

Prior to logs above (the night before) I did a fuel system bleed - which basically cranked up the in-tank pump for 30 seconds or so. Interestingly I could clearly hear the pump as I never normally hear this pump as it's PWM controlled and i'm guessing never usually needs to go up to high?
Has this cured my 'intermittent' cold start long crank issue? who knows after only 1x cold start.

 

[SuperV8]

After a full nights rest I checked Battery voltage & fuel pressure, just ignition on, no engine starting.
At 12.1v does this seem a bit low?
Fuel pressure - no idea if that's correct, but it's not zero so guessing that's good.

 

[BillyCool]

That's a lot of info!

I have no idea ref battery or fuel pressure. I'm just going to work on it one thing at a time. Are you doing that all through VCDS?