Glow plug relay location - 2014 184 TDi

[SuperV8]

That's a lot of info!

I have no idea ref battery or fuel pressure. I'm just going to work on it one thing at a time. Are you doing that all through VCDS?

No, a Delphi DS150E diagnostic tool I borrowed.
I've been logging every cold start in a hope to try and record some parameters when I get a long crank to see if fuel of battery V seem odd - but sods law it has been starting on the button for the last week!!!

 

[Evo97]

Any updates ?

 

[SuperV8]

Any updates ?

Been doing lots of logging but only thing I can see that is 'interesting' is the battery voltage - which at first log seemed fine for a 'smart' charging system?
Next log looked strange - constant voltage and then the 'smart charging' kicking in - and then the third log is just constant voltage as a standard alternator might give!

Is this a correctly functioning charging system - just doing its thing?
Or is this a sign my battery is getting tired?
I don't know.

Checking the battery SOC on the dash I have seen between 50 & 70%!

Start stop is still working - though there are times when I think it should stop and it doesn't.

Even if my battery is 'tired' and start stop doesn't always work - I can't understand how this would cause occasional long crank's?

I have a 'feeling' I get these 'long crank' after a DPF regeneration. My car yesterday did a regen on the way home - and this morning I had a long crank, like more than 5 seconds. I don't know though if this was just a coincidence? and what mechanism from the regen would cause a long crank?

I was on holiday a week ago - and had lots of long cranks (for the first start of the day) but also I think it was wanting to do a regen?

 

[SuperV8]

My SOC cold is 60% (less in winter). New battery arrived today, so I'll try to fit it at the weekend. I'm not convinced that is the issue though. I think my fuel rail or bleed off has a slight leak and is letting air into the system. That's why it takes time to pressurise and slow start first thing, when it's been left a while.

I would certainly be interested if you can get your fuel pressures.

I'm just working my way through the list. I could say it's an education......but I won't.

How is the new battery?
Have you had a long crank since?

 

[Evo97]

Thanks for the update

I may swap the battery to rule it out but it cranks over strong and I’ve tested the battery and its fine.
I’ve had this issue on and off now since ownership (wife’s car)
Seems worse in the summer and warmer spells
Thought I sorted it last year with a egr replacement (loosing coolant) but this summer intermittent long cranks again
I’ve found if for instance my wife starts it and flaps around putting bags in boot etc it develops the long crank. But if I use the car unlock it jump straight in and ignition on let the needles sweep it normally starts fine. It’s bloody embarrassing when it cranks for 5 secs sometimes for the wife

 

[adam davies]

Thanks for the update

I may swap the battery to rule it out but it cranks over strong and I’ve tested the battery and its fine.
I’ve had this issue on and off now since ownership (wife’s car)
Seems worse in the summer and warmer spells
Thought I sorted it last year with a egr replacement (loosing coolant) but this summer intermittent long cranks again
I’ve found if for instance my wife starts it and flaps around putting bags in boot etc it develops the long crank. But if I use the car unlock it jump straight in and ignition on let the needles sweep it normally starts fine. It’s bloody embarrassing when it cranks for 5 secs sometimes for the wife

Diagnose dan longcranking video for tdi on youtube.

 

[SuperV8]

Diagnose dan longcranking video for tdi on youtube.

Yes, my post - number 8 mentions this - my car doesn't actually have VVT! Only CUNA, not CUPA!

The common reply with the VW TDI long crank issue is the diagnose dan youtube vid where the changes the VVT solenoid - I was about to order one and just thought i'd double check in my engine bay - and noticed I don't even have a blooming VVT solenoid Only EU6 CUNA engines have that and mines EU5.5 CUPA!

 

[Evo97]

Yes, my post - number 8 mentions this - my car doesn't actually have VVT! Only CUNA, not CUPA!

Exactly that

 

[SuperV8]

Thanks for the update

I may swap the battery to rule it out but it cranks over strong and I’ve tested the battery and its fine.
I’ve had this issue on and off now since ownership (wife’s car)
Seems worse in the summer and warmer spells
Thought I sorted it last year with a egr replacement (loosing coolant) but this summer intermittent long cranks again
I’ve found if for instance my wife starts it and flaps around putting bags in boot etc it develops the long crank. But if I use the car unlock it jump straight in and ignition on let the needles sweep it normally starts fine. It’s bloody embarrassing when it cranks for 5 secs sometimes for the wife

Interesting feedback on the EGR valve. I'll cross this off my list of potential causes!
Agree - when I leave for work in the morning, and it sits there for many seconds cranking early in the morning it's embarrassing/annoying.

I have read of others who have changed the battery it's cured the long crank for them - it just annoys me that my battery still has more than enough juice to spin the engine over but yet may have to change it to fix an intermittent problem.

I have a 'feeling' that just running the 'new battery' coding using a diagnostic interface re-sets some ECU settings/calibration/learned data - which may fix the long crank? so i'm thinking of doing a battery coding on my 'old' battery to see if it helps? Not sure on this yet. Don't want to leave me stranded.

I'm sure my last long crank was the morning after my car was doing a dpf regen, and I had a lot of long cranks when on holiday when my car was trying/failing to regen - whether this is a coincidence/correlation or causation I don't know?

 

[Evo97]

Yep I might check on DPF levels myself to see if the long cranks occur after a regen
I have noticed the last couple of mornings have been bad with the wife starting it but fuel level has been low (just above reserve)
Think she’s brimming it today for a trip to Norfolk at the weekend so will monitor and report back
I’m thinking maybe auxiliary priming pump in fuel tank issue?

I also have a spare new 096 AGM so may fit it and code to rule this out but once again done a test on the old battery last week and passed test
I also check resistance on glow plugs just to rule them out and all good

 

[SuperV8]

Yep I might check on DPF levels myself to see if the long cranks occur after a regen
I have noticed the last couple of mornings have been bad with the wife starting it but fuel level has been low (just above reserve)
Think she’s brimming it today for a trip to Norfolk at the weekend so will monitor and report back
I’m thinking maybe auxiliary priming pump in fuel tank issue?

I also have a spare new 096 AGM so may fit it and code to rule this out but once again done a test on the old battery last week and passed test
I also check resistance on glow plugs just to rule them out and all good

I have read about in-tank priming pump & control module possible suspects but also read of people changing these and still getting issues. I read of this fixing 1x person's issue - but this car had a noisy in tank pump - so obviously a pump problem. Mine is virtually silent.

For what its worth from all of my own logs - fuel pressure seems fine so in my position I have ruled out the fuel pump 'for now'!

I did find this bulletin for my engine regarding difficult engine start from cold - BUT it mentions about a <21 deg air temp - and mine has defiantly occurred when the outside temps are higher than this - so I'm not sure this would be worth perusing? Don't know what Seat would charge to plug in and check for ECU software updates?

Have also read that some Skoda's have had a software update to 320F which for some has cured it - for others was just temporary improvement.

 

[Evo97]

Interesting as that Technical Support Bulletin mentions poor cold start in warmer weather and over the last 2 years off ownership this is the time it does it especially this year in the UK as we are experiencing a heat wave

 

[SuperV8]

Interesting as that Technical Support Bulletin mentions poor cold start in warmer weather and over the last 2 years off ownership this is the time it does it especially this year in the UK as we are experiencing a heat wave

But it says < (less than) 21 deg C so I wouldn't associate that with any heat wave. Maybe it's a typo and should read >? who knows, but that is 2 different sources suggesting a software fix!

 

[Evo97]

 

[Evo97]

Ah yes I got my greater then symbol mixed up.

 

[SuperV8]

Thanks @SteveGSXR600K1 - I was aware of that. I should be able to do it with my Carista. My main question is whether it's okay to disconnect the battery, fit the new one and reconnect. I know that's what you used to do but I've also read that it's now a good idea to keep power to the car to prevent alarm issues and stereo codes? Not really sure if that is worth worrying about? I've seen a You Tube video where they change the battery with no issue.

Open to ideas though!

@Brian Gordon-Stables; How's your new battery? did it cure your long cranking?

 

[BillyCool]

@Brian Gordon-Stables; How's your new battery? did it cure your long cranking?

Not fitted it yet!

I'll try to do it this week, although I don't think that's the cause. I imght be wrong though.

 

[SuperV8]

Not fitted it yet!

I'll try to do it this week, although I don't think that's the cause. I imght be wrong though.

Just out of interest - What battery did you go for?

 

[BillyCool]

Just out of interest - What battery did you go for?

I bought this one as it's effectively a like for like replacement but the newer one has a higher CCA of 760A.

E39 Varta Silver Dynamic Start-Stop Plus 096 AGM Car Battery 12V 70Ah (570901076)

E39 VARTA Silver Dynamic AGM Car Battery <i>Innovation with Purpose, Premium Experience, Powerful History</i> VARTA was founded in 1887 Germany, and was established fully in 1904 by delivering the first electric vehicle battery, famously driven by Thomas Edison. Soon after, VARTA delivers the...

www.tayna.co.uk

 

[SuperV8]

I bought this one as it's effectively a like for like replacement but the newer one has a higher CCA of 760A.

E39 Varta Silver Dynamic Start-Stop Plus 096 AGM Car Battery 12V 70Ah (570901076)

E39 VARTA Silver Dynamic AGM Car Battery <i>Innovation with Purpose, Premium Experience, Powerful History</i> VARTA was founded in 1887 Germany, and was established fully in 1904 by delivering the first electric vehicle battery, famously driven by Thomas Edison. Soon after, VARTA delivers the...

www.tayna.co.uk

That's the one i'm looking at.

Don't suppose you've had chance to fit it? Still getting occasional long cranking?