First Stage 3 Cupra!!!

[Deleted member 49882]

I love reading these performance modification threads and the inspiration that some people come up with. I would love to do some serious modifications, but I buy my cars new for a reason...warranty! I just can't take the risk of losing my warranty and something going drastically wrong leading to expensive repairs. I so want to get the revo remap and the brembo brake upgrades - this, for me, would be near perfect set up (well maybe blueflame exhaust if they ever release it), but invalidating my warranty is putting me off.

I look forward to reading and seeing how people get on with their projects though.

 

[Tilley1]

Im pretty sure Miltek etc would provide warrenty on there exhaust, then just keep your seat one in place

 

[grant 123]

Anyone got an idea for when the aftermarket exhausts are coming out

 

[GrDuDe_Cupra]

I love reading these performance modification threads and the inspiration that some people come up with. I would love to do some serious modifications, but I buy my cars new for a reason...warranty! I just can't take the risk of losing my warranty and something going drastically wrong leading to expensive repairs. I so want to get the revo remap and the brembo brake upgrades - this, for me, would be near perfect set up (well maybe blueflame exhaust if they ever release it), but invalidating my warranty is putting me off.

I look forward to reading and seeing how people get on with their projects though.

You are very right my friend. If someone decides to tune his car he must be well aware that there is a possibility of a serious damage. And trust me then you are all alone, everyone will pass the responsibility to someone else. In my case when the first impeller broke the turbine master was blaming the exhaust guy that he didnt polish the pipe, the exhaust guy was blaming my mechanic and said was his responsibility to do the final check and you end up going around . Luckily for me here in my country there are ways to overcome warranty issues, when i faced the possibility that my compressor broke the price was 200 Euros for a new one under warranty.
bare in mind if you pop you dont stop. First you go for a filter and then you realise how tight and restrictive your exhaust is and go for a bigger one, if you have those a remap would do wonders and then here comes the summer and you need an intercooler bigtime cos you get 60C + air intake and the ECU is going on safemodes, but if you are full peripherals why not go for a stage 2, then you are all happy for the little beast and you go race you win and everything is good and you end up loosing for half a bonnet from a big rival and off you go for a hybrid, not to mention brakes and suspensions looks etc, you see how it goes i think it boils down to human greedyness hehehe.

 

[Tilley1]

So so so true lol

 

[GrDuDe_Cupra]

Ibiza Cupra DSG Stage 3 Updated with Dyno results

Hello all, as you remember i was waiting for remap to get my final resuts.

The final settings of the remap are 1,6bar and 1,3bar @limiter with 13 degrees of advance.
The result was 250bhp.
As opposed to my friends golf GT that is working 2bar and 1,6bar@limiter with 16 degrees of advance which resulted in 270bhp without methanol.

The Wastegate we turned only 1-2 turns, if i chose to tight it in max position would have given me another 5+bhp but the life limit of the turbine would have dropped to 50.000 km as opposed to the 100.000+ that will last now.

Despite me asking the programmer to give more boost and more degrees of advance he insisted that i reduce the turbines life by alot and i risk my engine, he was insisting that i should not confuse the manual cars with DSG, i decided to follow his advice in order to be safe. One thing that he mentioned to me when i complained about the low results was DSG cars loose bhp on the dyno because it cannot measure the losses correctly hence showing 8-10 bhp less. I crosschecked this with another programmer and he confirmed it.
Anyway i saw 250 on the dyno and thats what i mention. A series of races have been arranged to see my actual gains on the road.

Below you can see the dyno result and i have to admit that the curve is perfect and the power is all the way to limiter. The torque dropped to low levels because the new turbine is bigger and we still maintain low pressure, also the removal of the catalyst contributed to torque reduction but it was a trade off for more power at high rpm. A video will follow soon to show its actual performance on the road.

http://img338.imageshack.us/i/dsc01162r.jpg/

 

[mardon]

Whats going on with the Wheel power figure? I get 181BHP wheel power PRE remap..?

How much have you spent to get 250BHP? I take it you'll be interested in the clutch upgrade when it comes out?

Also nice safe torque figures 305Nm You can see that there is a slight dip in the curve at the charger cut off point as the bigger turbo is still not quite fully spooled. How does this feel on the road?

Sounds like your tuner is doing his best to get safe power rather than huge gains, this is a good thing IMO.

 

[GrDuDe_Cupra]

Whats going on with the Wheel power figure? I get 181BHP wheel power PRE remap..?

How much have you spent to get 250BHP? I take it you'll be interested in the clutch upgrade when it comes out?

Also nice safe torque figures 305Nm You can see that there is a slight dip in the curve at the charger cut off point as the bigger turbo is still not quite fully spooled. How does this feel on the road?

Sounds like your tuner is doing his best to get safe power rather than huge gains, this is a good thing IMO.

Are you sure you get 181 WHP, because stock is 180 on the engine.
MAHA are the most strict Dynos around here.

The total cost until now is around 4500 Euros. I am not sure if i need the clutch upgrade now as the torque is pretty low, after speaking with the programmer today he said that he wanted the torque there in order to avoid the excessive spinning that is only causing reduced performance. The slight dip you see is wheel spin, cannot do anything about it and does not affect the final result. The supercharger is enough to spool a 28RS so in no way the supercharger will ever need an upgrade.

My programmer is one of the best around Europe, so i trust every single suggestion he makes.

 

[jc_boc]

That is really impressive mate. Congrats on the results. So give us an exact break down on everything you have done to the car if you don't mind? I may just skip stage 2 and go straight onto stage 3 with those figures.

 

[vRSy]

you dont and will not get 180WHP @ stock. that would equate to around 215-220hp @ the flywheel. based on around 17.5% transmission losses

What rollers out of interest?

@ the OP very nice indeed. and the torque curve is immense, nice big flat plateau of torque like a V6. plus your around 200hp/ton now which is very nice indeed

 

[mardon]

Dyno debate aside he should have over 200BHP ATW with ease with 250 at the fly. There is no way he's losing 70BHP in the transmission, think about it, its more like a 30%DT loss!

I'm not criticising the work done or the figures just trying to understand how there is a 70BHP loss. A 17.5% loss as vRSy guessed at works out at 206BHP which sounds more like it for 250BHP fly power.

Here is my standard map on the awesome rollers. Even if the wheel figure is 10BHP out He still has a hybrid and this is stock. Something is wrong somewhere and I doubt its mine as this is what all the 180PS TSi's seem to make (there or there about) in stock form.

On comparing my map to his, the hybrid is spooling stronger and harder and I imagine will feel more like a vtec kick than a lag when the turbo comes on so should be really nice!

 

[GrDuDe_Cupra]

That is really impressive mate. Congrats on the results. So give us an exact break down on everything you have done to the car if you don't mind? I may just skip stage 2 and go straight onto stage 3 with those figures.

Thank you guys for your kind comments.

Currently on my car i have done the following:

1)Intake (BMC) 70mmx150 with 5 layer silicon hose
2)Custom exhaust, DP 70mm decat, cat back 63,5mm, without middle box(not sure how u call it hihi).
3)Universal Intercooler for max ps 280 with 5 layer silicon hoses
4) Forge 007 Blow off valve
5)Custom pipe feeding the turbine (again dunno the english word >.<)
6)Hybrid Turbo (Aluminium K03-76, impellers from S3, axle from K04-03 and new cartridge)
7) Custom Remap by XXexelixis

In my opinion for anyone that wants to go above the Stage 2, i suggest maybe to look the solution in a bigger turbine from the same group(VAG), maybe a K03s. Hybrids are very tought to make them succesfull and cost alot more. If i went through the same things again i would have tried to find a solution in that direction. Or you can go for the tested solution of just an impeller from K04-01 and size up your alumium, its gonna be 10times cheaper and i doubt we are gonna have much diffrence

regarding exhaust my opinion is stay full 63.5 for stage 1&2 with catalyst and go for 70mm DP if you plan for higher performance, and i say that because i payed once for a catalyst and DP and then i had to sell them for alot less to buy a 70mm DP.

 

[mardon]

Are you sure you get 181 WHP, because stock is 180 on the engine.
MAHA are the most strict Dynos around here.

The total cost until now is around 4500 Euros. I am not sure if i need the clutch upgrade now as the torque is pretty low, after speaking with the programmer today he said that he wanted the torque there in order to avoid the excessive spinning that is only causing reduced performance. The slight dip you see is wheel spin, cannot do anything about it and does not affect the final result. The supercharger is enough to spool a 28RS so in no way the supercharger will ever need an upgrade.

My programmer is one of the best around Europe, so i trust every single suggestion he makes.

Yeah looking at the curve it looks spot on and if I was going your route it’s the sort of power/map I would want. I just think the Wheel HP looks out. My car made 194BHP stock. My old 160BHP PD TDi cupra made 173BHP stock (on different rollers). VAG engines often make over their quoted power.

You are right the more power low down the harder the car will be to get off the line. I expect below 2.7k rpm the car feels pretty much like stock, past this point the wheels should have traction, you’ll come on boost and boom you’re gone. Very easy car to drive day to day and to launch of the line. Its impressive stuff.

 

[GrDuDe_Cupra]

Mardon it is sort of pointless to compare 2 different dynos results.

People get a bit confused with dynos and think its a way to show who has it bigger....
Dynos are actually programmers tools to monitor the car while working on it.
And i say that because there are various "games" the programmer can do to boost the results.
if for example you lower the cooling fans temperatures you will get 60-70-80 Degrees Air intake Temp and the corrections the dyno will make are gonanna be huge 20++bhp from reallity.
The engine power is a "universal" figure that all dynos more or less show the same, some are more generous some are not.
The wheel power is measure different and depending the algorithms each dyno uses might have big variation. here in Greece no1 mentions MAHA WHP because they find it too small.
Thats why ussualy when you mention your result people ask on which dyno? Cos more or less you know whats going on.

 

[mardon]

Its fine to compare power curves as you get a nice idea of what’s going on where in the rev range but it can be tricky comparing actual figures as you mentioned.

Its just to me the 70BHP difference between engine power and wheel power seem rather large. The most important thing is how the car performs obviously and your car looks like it will be spot on.

I’m not trying to start a “who has the bigger” argument at all and I’m certainly not criticising anyone’s work. I’m just trying to understand why it was as low as it is. With your engine figure on rollers I’m familiar with I bet it would make over 210BHP at the wheels as I previously mentioned.

I was actually going to comment on how your car will be quicker on the road than an over tuned 300BHP car as its usable power which won’t be wheel span away and wasted. Some people use big figures for willy waving but in reality all they have done is ruin the car as the chassis can’t take the power. You have not done this and I commend what you have done.


Can't wait to see some vid's and get some performance figures.

 

[GrDuDe_Cupra]

Its fine to compare power curves as you get a nice idea of what’s going on where in the rev range but it can be tricky comparing actual figures as you mentioned.

Its just to me the 70BHP difference between engine power and wheel power seem rather large. The most important thing is how the car performs obviously and your car looks like it will be spot on.

I’m not trying to start a “who has the bigger” argument at all and I’m certainly not criticising anyone’s work. I’m just trying to understand why it was as low as it is. With your engine figure on rollers I’m familiar with I bet it would make over 210BHP at the wheels as I previously mentioned.

I was actually going to comment on how your car will be quicker on the road than an over tuned 300BHP car as its usable power which won’t be wheel span away and wasted. Some people use big figures for willy waving but in reality all they have done is ruin the car as the chassis can’t take the power. You have not done this and I commend what you have done.


Can't wait to see some vid's and get some performance figures.

Mardon i hope my bad english were not misunderstood, i wasnt annoyed by anything, and regarding the "who has it bigger" i wasnt reffering to you.

We have to wait and see the road results, hopefully tommoz if weather permits

 

[mardon]

Your English is great, I just didn't want you thinking I was nit picking. I think it'll put out even more power on the type of rollers I have experianced in England. I'm excited for you!

If a stage 1 is doing 5.1's I bet yours which should be similar to launch will could get a 4.5 0-60 and I couldn't even guess at the quarter mile time!

Its good that the torque levels are also similar to stage 1 as you wont have to worry about your DSG going pop too early! Its time to sit back and enjoy the car!!

 

[GrDuDe_Cupra]

Your English is great, I just didn't want you thinking I was nit picking. I think it'll put out even more power on the type of rollers I have experianced in England. I'm excited for you!

If a stage 1 is doing 5.1's I bet yours which should be similar to launch will could get a 4.5 0-60 and I couldn't even guess at the quarter mile time!

Its good that the torque levels are also similar to stage 1 as you wont have to worry about your DSG going pop too early! Its time to sit back and enjoy the car!!

I need to go to the next drag race and measure in a dragstrip with glue on the start, cos road measurments will never be as good.I am curious myself tbh.

About the DSG i ve got to admit that my heart was beating fast before i saw the dyno results, i was well nervous in case it broke, but now i can rinse the car without worrying

 

[jc_boc]

It is really impressive and I can't wait to see the vids either. Would be good to see what the cheaper option on the turbo would be but I am seriously interested in getting the same sort of power. As Mardon said, it is perfect useable power which is what you want from this car. No use having so much power and you can't put it to the tar.

 

[yea_good_1]

well done GrDuDe_Cupra your a brave man but youve done it now and your happy with the results i bet your car is epic when you want to give it beans. Hopefully we can see some videos and pictures soon.