Surge on Stage 1 K04 - Cured

[rsmith]

Robbie, out of interest what max VE and cfm did you estimate for our engines

This is only a guess'timate but has proved for me to be fairly accurate, also it should be noted largeport/smallport, large/small FMIC can help with flow, fill times etc..

This is how i documented my hybrid to be surging.

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3297718&postcount=207

 

[S3 Nattie]

cheers buddy, will have a look now.

 

[JamJay]

No idea what I am boosting now, how do I tell on VCDS Lite? No boost guage here, I wouldn't even know how to wire one in (electronically), I could plumb one into the FPR line though which looks like I'm going to have to now after this sh*t attack i'm having with the car. Personally I didn't ever foresee having these issues with the car, especially at a relatively low level of tune, low mileage, serviced well and no-one else having the issue.

If need be I'll take it off the road, add a FMIC an drive it down to AMD for their Stage 2 code.

 

[rsmith]

block 115 reads boost but anything over 1.5bar cannot be read by vagcom, you need to get a boost gauge mate.Also this is only a glitch, just stay off WOT within the RPM range you experience this fluttering in.

 

[S3 Nattie]

Boost gauge is easy to do jay. Do what you said, take your vacuum from the FPR and your live from behind your fuse box at the side of your dash (I took my lights so the gauge turns on when my headlights are on) and take your earth from behind a bolt by the fuse box, thats what I did IIRC.

Boost gauge is a minimum when running a turbo I think. Its blocks 115 in vag com but you cant view them with the lite version. You will see your boost going up and down very quickly when you here the fluttering when you get a gauge fitted.

 

[rsmith]

Jay, i would be happy to walk your thru installing one of these, easy out when you know how.

Bad news though, looking at your logs of 002 on page 1 your injectors are maxed out, i.e over 100% duty cycles.

 

[JamJay]

Ok guys I'll have to have a go at fitting a guage this weekend. I'll definitely get in touch with you Robbie for the fitting as I have no idea where I need to poke the line through into the dash either. My local Halfords have an Autogauge in stock for £29.99 and then I guess I need a pod, Nomad looks best which is £44.

Injectors maxed out? At Stage 1? So my car is wanting more fuel than the injectors can cope with , why would it be doing this? Quick fix...4bar FPR, long term bigger injectors? This is really worrying, I have no idea why my car is behaving like this, the problems I have are associated with Stage 3, not stage 1...I need help

 

[JamJay]

Ok so a small update and maybe something you can advise on.

Before work I decided to check all the turbo hoses, all seem to be fine with no splits or leaks.

CP - N75 ok
CP - DV ok
DV - Inlet Mani ok
Top IC hoses ok

I took the 007 off and did the 'test', pushed a pen up in the bottom of it to raise the piston and when it got to the top I stuck my finger over the vacuum nipple. The result was that the piston dropped pretty much back into its seat, when I removed my finger from the vac nipple it dropped into it's seat which was only a very small way. So to my knowledge the DV needs a service and clearly the piston is not holding open as it should, am I right? Could this contribute to the surge? Seems to me like the DV is not expelling the excess pressure efficiently but then again I am getting no compressor 'stall' i.e the DV flutter when letting off throttle. This is with yellow spring by the way which has always been ok.

This still doesn't explain why my injectors are maxed. What values in my logs, in Post 1 on Page 1, indicate that these are maxed? I don't understand these yet, so what should the readings be?

 

[sambryant]

Jamjay the piston should drop about 5mm, if its more than this then it needs a service

 

[JamJay]

I'm going to try out my old OE DV later and see what happens. I've been reading some U.S forums and some have reported that they got this when their DV didn't open enough so basically on WOT the pressure/air from the turbo (outlet side to ICs) had nowhere to go so was trying to get back through the TC. Sounds logical to me and if this isn't the case then at least I can rule it out.

This is one theory obviously but the other is that the car has now decided to produce too much boost. I have no idea why this will have started as before the 3" TIP everything was fine. I didn;t initally get the surge after the 3" TIP but it has since come on.

Can the gapping of the spark plugs do anything? Still, these were fine before 3" TIP.

Oh Bill, oh Bill, wherefore art thou?

 

[t0m]

Interesting read..

Sounds possibly DV related to me. That's where I would start, like you say if you can slap the old OEM DV on there and see how it goes at least you can fix/rule it out from there.

Hope you get it sorted buddy. Typical things like this come up when you've just forked out for that new tasty sounding cat-back..! Always the way..

 

[JamJay]

Interesting read..

Sounds possibly DV related to me. That's where I would start, like you say if you can slap the old OEM DV on there and see how it goes at least you can fix/rule it out from there.

Hope you get it sorted buddy. Typical things like this come up when you've just forked out for that new tasty sounding cat-back..! Always the way..

This blows so much Tom and for your average car enthusiast it is mind boggling, I just do not understand what is happening with my car which is frustrating.

I know that my car is drawing in too much air for the engine to consume basically but I cannot finy anywhere on the internet why this is happening. Obviously because I have a huge intake on there, that's a given. Second up is the issue with the injectors, I can only think that these are now maxed because they're trying to shove so much fuel into the engine to compensate for all that air.

It's looking like DV first as that's the simple fix or other than that it looks like the map needs to be tweaked so that boost isn't so severe. At a guess I am boosting some unsafe numbers but I can't be sure. I'lly try and buy a guage later this evening, then I have to wait on a pillar to be delivered and figure out how the heck you do this.

 

[t0m]

This blows so much Tom and for your average car enthusiast it is mind boggling, I just do not understand what is happening with my car which is frustrating.

I know that my car is drawing in too much air for the engine to consume basically but I cannot finy anywhere on the internet why this is happening. Obviously because I have a huge intake on there, that's a given. Second up is the issue with the injectors, I can only think that these are now maxed because they're trying to shove so much fuel into the engine to compensate for all that air.

It's looking like DV first as that's the simple fix or other than that it looks like the map needs to be tweaked so that boost isn't so severe. At a guess I am boosting some unsafe numbers but I can't be sure. I'lly try and buy a guage later this evening, then I have to wait on a pillar to be delivered and figure out how the heck you do this.

I can imagine bud

My boost gauge isn't fitted yet, I'm not clue'd up enough to do this on my own so my friend is helping me. It's just getting over there soon as he is free to get them done. He's just got a wavetrac and clutch upgrade for his LCR, plus ARBs so might be a few weeks before I can get round there!

Gauge would help massively here, and the best thing you can do for now is not to drive the car hard to the revs where this is happening. Get the gauge and pod ordered with the vac pipe and get that put in.

The injectors are doing just that as you say. You don't need to uprate these. I'm surprised this is happening, like you say I saw alot of this 'surge' stuff on stage 3 threads such as Robbie's.

I'll be interested to see what happens when you fit the old DV though. If that solves it I'll be happy for you bud. Keep us updated. Hopefully Bill can shed some light on this thread at some point today if he's about.

 

[JamJay]

Thanks for the kind words Tom, life is stressful enough for me right without the car playing up.

There are two theories to this which I have read on the dreaded internet but I don't know which is true.

1. There is so much air TRYING to enter the turbo that it can't all get, therefore being built up in the TIP and is causing the compressor wheels to stall/air is bouncing off of the wheel.

2. The turbo HAS consumed so much air that the engine cannot physically consume it all so it is getting built up on the compressor outlet, charge pipe + DV line and boucing off of the wheel that way.

Any guides on here for fitting a boost guage to an LCR? I can't find one in the infobase or a search.

 

[traumapat]

Thanks for the kind words Tom, life is stressful enough for me right without the car playing up.

There are two theories to this which I have read on the dreaded internet but I don't know which is true.

1. There is so much air TRYING to enter the turbo that it can't all get, therefore being built up in the TIP and is causing the compressor wheels to stall/air is bouncing off of the wheel.

2. The turbo HAS consumed so much air that the engine cannot physically consume it all so it is getting built up on the compressor outlet, charge pipe + DV line and boucing off of the wheel that way.

Any guides on here for fitting a boost guage to an LCR? I can't find one in the infobase or a search.

Air cant try to get it.... its dragged kicking and screaming by the turbo so I cant see how more can enter.

The only logic would be that the TIP there before was hugely restrictive... turbo turned to a safe max but never gets the air....suddenly restriction removed and turbos now flat out....
Dont buy that as I think your maps generic and doubt it was restricted.



http://www.seatcupra.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=2&id=28&Itemid=6
third up from bottom

Id try the OEM valve.

 

[JamJay]

Air cant try to get it.... its dragged kicking and screaming by the turbo so I cant see how more can enter.

The only logic would be that the TIP there before was hugely restrictive... turbo turned to a safe max but never gets the air....suddenly restriction removed and turbos now flat out....
Dont buy that as I think your maps generic and doubt it was restricted.



http://www.seatcupra.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=2&id=28&Itemid=6
third up from bottom

Id try the OEM valve.

Thanks for the input . I've just had a word with a guy at work who's into his Cossie's, explained my issue and he immediately suggested DV so this is tonight's work. If this does't cure the issue then I am going to refit the TIP just to be sure. I also spoke to AMD too who say that at Stage 1 it is highly unlikely to be map related and there sounds like a definite underlying issue, possibly DV or TIP related also.

I pray to all that is holy that one of these fixes my issue.

This is winding me up a lot, I'll be honest but I'm not losing faith with the car, I will persevere and make it the best it's ever been.

 

[Cupra_Mat]

Thanks for the input . I've just had a word with a guy at work who's into his Cossie's, explained my issue and he immediately suggested DV so this is tonight's work. If this does't cure the issue then I am going to refit the TIP just to be sure. I also spoke to AMD too who say that at Stage 1 it is highly unlikely to be map related and there sounds like a definite underlying issue, possibly DV or TIP related also.

I pray to all that is holy that one of these fixes my issue.

This is winding me up a lot, I'll be honest but I'm not losing faith with the car, I will persevere and make it the best it's ever been.

I would say this is most definate your DV if there is too much air to be consumed then this is the purpose of the DV to release....

What DV do you have fitted, do you have the correct spring for the power you are running?

 

[JamJay]

I would say this is most definate your DV if there is too much air to be consumed then this is the purpose of the DV to release....

What DV do you have fitted, do you have the correct spring for the power you are running?

Thanks for posting up, appreciative of all info I can get here .

I have the Forge 007 DV, been on about 1.5yrs and not serviced as yet, perhaps this is the issue. I have the yellow spring which correct fro the current mods and has always been alright up until this point.

 

[traumapat]

Sticking dv. 12 monthly servicing, I found on my set up it would stick after 8 months.

 

[JamJay]

The 'dump' definitely isn't as loud as it used to be so another point towards DV sticking shut. The OE DV was taken off after about 25k - 30k and has since been sitting in a bag and box of its own so it should still function, it was 100% operational at the time I replaced it.