Whining noise at 40mph+ even when not in gear ...and a road trip beckons!!

[goob2000]

Hey guys, got a whining noise doing my nut in (not the missus for once - actually wish it was!!) on my 05 Leon TDI FR done about 60k..

basically it starts only while driving 40mph + and picks up in pitch the faster I go. It's independent of whether the car is in gear or neutral (sort of sounds like a washing machine), it gets higher pitched the faster I go, and lower pitched when it slows down..

Suspected wheel bearings, but after jacking it up there was no play in any of the wheels doing the 12-6, 3-9 tests, and while driving tried turning side to side to see if it disappeared, with no conclusive outcome. No real wheel type bearing 'grumbling' sounds either...

Did not seem to be a stuck caliper either, the wheels spin reasonably freely. THought about the tyres (P6000's) which are as a bit worn but no feathering or flat spots on them, and noise does not change on different road surfaces. Its just been for an MOT, and they did not flag anything either.

Going to check the driveshaft for play on my day off, but other than that I'm stumped. Could this be gearbox related (even though the car drives perfectly despite this) or something like a pinion bearing???? Would this still complain if the car is coasting out of gear at 50mph? Seems to be getting slightly worse each day (although I'm probably paranoid).

Any ideas?????? Would be appreciated!! Need to really book it into the garage - but I need to pinpoint it down a bit, as it's hard to place exactly where its coming from, most likely front but its hard to tell. Makes it worse I meant to be doing a 400 mile road trip this weekend!

 

[CupraRmark]

It does sound like a dry wheel bearing !! Get to a quite car park later and try turning different ways to see if the noise alters ? Worse or better if so his may determine which wheel bearing it may be....

Other than that tyres can play a massive part of road noise

 

[Muttley]

If the noise got louder and quieter as you turned from side to side, then it is a wheel bearing - the one that gets louder when it's loaded. It doesn't go away when unloaded, just gets quieter. You need to be doing a reasonable speed - say 20-30mph.

Trying to diagnose a worn front wheel bearing by feeling for play in the bearing didn't work for me in my old Ibiza, when I had the front wheel bearings go one after the other. My suspicion is that the bearings are so heavily engineered (given the amount of power that has to be transmitted through them) that even when worn out and shaking the car as I drove, the play was so small that I couldn't detect it with the old-fashioned test. Swerving from side to side showed it up straight away. They are twin-row bearings on both the Ibiza and Leon.

A rear wheel bearing might be less easy to detect using the swerving technique, and just as hard to detect play in, being another twin-row bearing.

If not a wheel bearing, and definitely road speed related, then the other options are tyres (try swapping front to back to see if it makes a change), the CV joints at either end of the driveshafts, or the differential. Tyres can make some very odd noises as they wear.

 

[csd_19]

Worn rear wheel bearings are actually easier to detect than fronts, if you jack the rear up (both sides at the same time, obviously after making sure the front wheels are chocked correctly), make sure the handbrake is off and then spin each wheel, the worn one will be easier to turn and will spin for longer on its own.

Obviously this assumes your handbrake has released correctly on both sides, but it's how I worked out which rear bearing was needing replaced.

This unfortunately doesn't work on the fronts with them being connected to the gearbox etc, there is too much drag to spin freely.

One other possible - have your gear changes become more notchy recently, or is it hard to get into gear when cold? Could be an issue with the gearbox oil level, not enough in there to keep the diff happy.

 

[goob2000]

It does sound like a dry wheel bearing !! Get to a quite car park later and try turning different ways to see if the noise alters ? Worse or better if so his may determine which wheel bearing it may be....

Other than that tyres can play a massive part of road noise

Was leaning that way too, only problem is that it shows up around 45mph + so it would have to one big beast of a car park! Under 45 can't really hear it over turbo

Tried swerving on way to work, but tricky on the A road I have to go on. Other drivers probably thought I'd been on the moonshine!

If the noise got louder and quieter as you turned from side to side, then it is a wheel bearing - the one that gets louder when it's loaded. It doesn't go away when unloaded, just gets quieter. You need to be doing a reasonable speed - say 20-30mph.

Trying to diagnose a worn front wheel bearing by feeling for play in the bearing didn't work for me in my old Ibiza, when I had the front wheel bearings go one after the other. My suspicion is that the bearings are so heavily engineered (given the amount of power that has to be transmitted through them) that even when worn out and shaking the car as I drove, the play was so small that I couldn't detect it with the old-fashioned test. Swerving from side to side showed it up straight away. They are twin-row bearings on both the Ibiza and Leon.

A rear wheel bearing might be less easy to detect using the swerving technique, and just as hard to detect play in, being another twin-row bearing.

If not a wheel bearing, and definitely road speed related, then the other options are tyres (try swapping front to back to see if it makes a change), the CV joints at either end of the driveshafts, or the differential. Tyres can make some very odd noises as they wear.

Would explain why I didnt find any play both times I jacked it up and checked. Had swapped the back to front tyres this week - and it seemed to get slightly worse, but also wierdly seemed like the sound changed sides too - but its hard to be sure. I'll check the CV joints etc as soon as I get a chance to jack it up again.

Worn rear wheel bearings are actually easier to detect than fronts, if you jack the rear up (both sides at the same time, obviously after making sure the front wheels are chocked correctly), make sure the handbrake is off and then spin each wheel, the worn one will be easier to turn and will spin for longer on its own.

Obviously this assumes your handbrake has released correctly on both sides, but it's how I worked out which rear bearing was needing replaced.

This unfortunately doesn't work on the fronts with them being connected to the gearbox etc, there is too much drag to spin freely.

One other possible - have your gear changes become more notchy recently, or is it hard to get into gear when cold? Could be an issue with the gearbox oil level, not enough in there to keep the diff happy.

Gear changes seems fine - but I'll check the fluid just in case. As far as I know its never been replaced, but the fluids "supposed" to be good for 100k is it not?

Checked both rears when jacked up, seemed no noticable difference in terms of spinning. Had to raid my neighbours crockery garden for big rocks to use as chock blocks, lol.


Am I right in thinking that it's probably not gearbox related (ie pinion bearing) as it does not seem to kick in in low gears, only at 45+?? Surely if it was something like a pinion bearing, I'd hear it when accelerating and at lower speeds??? At least I bloody hope its not gearbox/driveshaft related.....


Thanks for the input guys, appreciate it.

 

[Muttley]

One more thought - does it only happen when you're in fifth or sixth gears? The 02M gearbox has two layshafts, one for 5th, 6th and reverse, the other for 1st-4th.

 

[stevei'D]

I say wheel bearing. Same symptoms you describe I had, took it to my specialist did all the usual checks even had stethoscope on front hubs whilst car in the air, couldn't hear it due to no load. Eventually after another 7000 miles it could be confirmed as f/n/s bearing, when taken out didn't look overly worn but did need replacing. Job done. Drove me mad for months the noise. They seam to be bullet proof. That's my ten pence added. Ta

 

[M20FES]

One more thought - does it only happen when you're in fifth or sixth gears? The 02M gearbox has two layshafts, one for 5th, 6th and reverse, the other for 1st-4th.

yer the common whining in 5th has started on mine abit,

 

[goob2000]

One more thought - does it only happen when you're in fifth or sixth gears? The 02M gearbox has two layshafts, one for 5th, 6th and reverse, the other for 1st-4th.

Does not matter if in gear or not, although it becomes most noticable at 55mph - 5th & 6th territory, but more down to speed than anything else.

I say wheel bearing. Same symptoms you describe I had, took it to my specialist did all the usual checks even had stethoscope on front hubs whilst car in the air, couldn't hear it due to no load. Eventually after another 7000 miles it could be confirmed as f/n/s bearing, when taken out didn't look overly worn but did need replacing. Job done. Drove me mad for months the noise. They seam to be bullet proof. That's my ten pence added. Ta

Glad to hear that they are tough beasts, still got another 2 days (45 miles of journeys) before I can get the chance to jack it up and have another look.

Out of interest did you confirm it by letting it get so loud it became really obvious?

yer the common whining in 5th has started on mine abit,

Hopefully will just be an mild annoyance rather than anything else.


Getting more convinced it is the front offside bearing. After more piss-head style swerve tests it seems to get louder when turning right, puuting load on it. At least, I'm kind of hoping it is.....
On getting to work, driving in 1st & 2nd I did detect a very faint whine (could be unrelated) that followed the revs (even out of gear). I could'nt hear this when I started the journey, only after it had done 15 miles and was pulling into car park. Could sort of hear this on idle (but at an undulating tone) and very, very faintly - I'm not even sure it was'nt the engine just running normally.... Hate these unwanted noises, driving my mental.

Anyay, thanks for the input guys, appreciate it.

 

[bo!]

Hi. Quite an old thread but hopeful for a response.i have been having a whirring noise. On my 52 leon cupra 180 for a while now.i have jacked the rear of the car up and when i spin the wheels.my rear passenger wheel spins alot longer.is this a clear indication that the bearing is goosed?.