Ibiza TDI Track weapon

[seancupratdi]

Good evening all,

This I my friends Ibiza PD160 that we are turning into a track day star. So far the car has been stripped and fitted with a roll cage. Engine wise here is the list

- Hybrid Turbo 1.8 BAR (2 BAR MAX rating)
- 3 BAR Map sensor (darkside)
- Custom pipework and fabrication
- Remap (super nova tuning)
- Launch control set at 2300 RPM
- PopCorn Limiter 4600 RPM

we are just looking to see your thoughts and gather ideas on the next stage ie injectors cams ect. Over the weekend the car is going back to super nova to be run MAFless and some timing adjustments.

The car has not yet been on the rolling road but we are hoping that we can get on next week to see what she is making.

 

[seancupratdi]

I cant post any pictures as I don't have 15 posts.....

 

[Badger]

Sounds interesting! Just a few questions...

What Hybrid are you using?
Why MAFless?
Is your launch control popcorn or rev and hold?

I've got a small GTB1756VK daily project ongoing with a few tweaks and pushing 230bhp and 410ft/lbs. I would recommend upgrading the 3 BAR map sensor to a 4 BAR version. The 3 BAR Map sensor (although the name suggests) only reads about 1.85-1.9 bar of extra pressure (2.85-2.9BAR including atmospheric pressure) so if your turbo goes to 2.0bar that'll be your restriction before anything else.

Regards to the next stage, the standard injectors are good for 230bhp which needs about 2.0-2.1bar of pressure (I'm on them) and cam work is only really needed if you're planning on pushing over 270-280bhp. So unless you're planning on getting a bigger turbo, they really aren't needed.

I ask about MAFless as I've tried both with and without MAF tune. I found the MAFless tune less responsive and laggy compared to with MAF, however, this is only my opinion.

 

[cocadave]

Sounds interesting! Just a few questions...

What Hybrid are you using?
Why MAFless?
Is your launch control popcorn or rev and hold?

I've got a small GTB1756VK daily project ongoing with a few tweaks and pushing 230bhp and 410ft/lbs. I would recommend upgrading the 3 BAR map sensor to a 4 BAR version. The 3 BAR Map sensor (although the name suggests) only reads about 1.85-1.9 bar of extra pressure (2.85-2.9BAR including atmospheric pressure) so if your turbo goes to 2.0bar that'll be your restriction before anything else.

Regards to the next stage, the standard injectors are good for 230bhp which needs about 2.0-2.1bar of pressure (I'm on them) and cam work is only really needed if you're planning on pushing over 270-280bhp. So unless you're planning on getting a bigger turbo, they really aren't needed.

I ask about MAFless as I've tried both with and without MAF tune. I found the MAFless tune less responsive and laggy compared to with MAF, however, this is only my opinion.

Badger, a bit of advice if you don't mind?

(sorry for hijacking)

You say the cam only needs looking at if you're going over 270-280?
I have the GTB2260 and race injectors with firad nozzles (120%) but only managed 260bhp on the rollers, I say "only", it does go but I feel a little let down due to the RR figures, I was led to believe that the turbo is easily good for 300bhp and the injectors for even more so where do you think I'm losing power?

Cheers.

 

[Badger]

Badger, a bit of advice if you don't mind?

(sorry for hijacking)

You say the cam only needs looking at if you're going over 270-280?
I have the GTB2260 and race injectors with firad nozzles (120%) but only managed 260bhp on the rollers, I say "only", it does go but I feel a little let down due to the RR figures, I was led to believe that the turbo is easily good for 300bhp and the injectors for even more so where do you think I'm losing power?

Cheers.

What's your full setup?

You should be seeing a good 270-280bhp with that turbo, those injectors and stock head. Supporting mods I would assume would be 3" downpipe, with 2.5"+ exhaust, FMIC with 57mm pipework and a good air filter/setup. If you want more over 280bhp then you'll need to start looking at an upgraded CAM and headwork.

TBH 260bhp isn't a bad number, what's the torque and where does it peak? How does your dyno graph look? Smooth and progressive?

 

[seancupratdi]

Sounds interesting! Just a few questions...

What Hybrid are you using?
Why MAFless?
Is your launch control popcorn or rev and hold?

I've got a small GTB1756VK daily project ongoing with a few tweaks and pushing 230bhp and 410ft/lbs. I would recommend upgrading the 3 BAR map sensor to a 4 BAR version. The 3 BAR Map sensor (although the name suggests) only reads about 1.85-1.9 bar of extra pressure (2.85-2.9BAR including atmospheric pressure) so if your turbo goes to 2.0bar that'll be your restriction before anything else.

Regards to the next stage, the standard injectors are good for 230bhp which needs about 2.0-2.1bar of pressure (I'm on them) and cam work is only really needed if you're planning on pushing over 270-280bhp. So unless you're planning on getting a bigger turbo, they really aren't needed.

I ask about MAFless as I've tried both with and without MAF tune. I found the MAFless tune less responsive and laggy compared to with MAF, however, this is only my opinion.

Hi,

- using the stock housing with pd170 internals
- not sure why mafless to be honest but im willing to try
- both launch and popcorn limiter (launch at 2200 RPM - and popcorn at 4700)

Regarding the MAP sensor that's a good point will super nova to change the remap ? So Mafless is kind off pointless then, we are trying the eliminate the MAF just so I don't have to keep replacing it or worry about it degrading.

So we can keep the stock injectors ? to make 230 ish ?

 

[seancupratdi]

Also without the injectors wold the 2260 turbo make any difference.... There I an old Mercedes 320 CDI at work that has not been moved for a while so I could borrow that ?

 

[seancupratdi]

My understanding I the flow will be increased but not the actual pressure so effectively more power at the same pressure. after a quick google the Mercedes 320 CDI turbo is good for 2.8 BAR !! now that should make some power and maybe loose some smoke ?

 

[Badger]

Hi,

- using the stock housing with pd170 internals
- not sure why mafless to be honest but im willing to try
- both launch and popcorn limiter (launch at 2200 RPM - and popcorn at 4700)

Regarding the MAP sensor that's a good point will super nova to change the remap ? So Mafless is kind off pointless then, we are trying the eliminate the MAF just so I don't have to keep replacing it or worry about it degrading.

So we can keep the stock injectors ? to make 230 ish ?

So you have a GT1749VC Hybrid (good for about 1.85-1.9Bar). I only ask if you have the popcorn style limiter on your launch control (so 2200rpm then popcorn), it's not as good as rev and hold.

The actual MAP Sensor itself is the limit (irrespective of the mapping) as it's only designed to register 3BAR max, so a 4BAR Map Sensor will give you more room for more boost.

As I mentioned before, I've still got the original MAF and it works fine. The MAF registers the amount of air entering the turbo so it can work out the fueling prior to the MAP sensor limiting it according to boost. If you remove the MAF, it is then down to the MAP to record the boost and then inject the fuel accordingly. I'm only running 2Bar pressure on my GTB1756VK to get 230bhp and 410ft/lbs. I still have loads of extra fuel left (smoke) if I plan to push it to 2.1Bar.

Also without the injectors wold the 2260 turbo make any difference.... There I an old Mercedes 320 CDI at work that has not been moved for a while so I could borrow that ?

You'll easily max out the injectors on a GTB2260VK turbo to about 230bhp (some have seen 240bhp) The only issue is that the power will come in slightly later due to the bigger turbo.

My understanding I the flow will be increased but not the actual pressure so effectively more power at the same pressure. after a quick google the Mercedes 320 CDI turbo is good for 2.8 BAR !! now that should make some power and maybe loose some smoke ?

2.8Bar is the MAX that is recommended for this turbo. Pointless if you aren't going to upgrade the injectors as you won't be able to supply enough fuel to utilise the boost. If you aren't upgrading the injectors, stick with the Hybrid turbo you have and you may get away with the 3Bar Map Sensor. If you are upgrading the injectors, then GTB2260VK with 4Bar Map Sensor and larger downpipe, LSD, beefier clutch...