1.2TSI timing chain change on the driveway..

[skyrocketeer]

Hi all,

Has anyone done their timing chain on the driveway - it doesn't look too awful, despite the whole sump-off mularky and needing the crank and cam locking kits (about £40)
Tried the dealers for the work but they mucked me around after skinning me for an unnecessary inspection then doubling the quoted cost - I told em to jog on.
Where do you get the kits- dealers or Autodoc/similar..? Anything I should be wary of?

I'm still debating weather or not to do it myself- every time I have interactions with a garage other than for the MOT I feel like I've been mugged over.

 

[martin j.]

I use TPS for parts, genuine stuff at a decent price, the job I’ve never done so can’t comment.

 

[skyrocketeer]

I use TPS for parts, genuine stuff at a decent price, the job I’ve never done so can’t comment.

I struggle to get TPS's attention, as I'm not a business or a garage, they usually tell me to jog on.
A different dealer has said that all the bits I need to do the job comes to around £230/£240 though he didn't exactly state what was included. I've also been in touch with a Skoda parts supplier in Europe who can supply what appears to be a genuine kit for the job for just over 100Euros. I'm a little wary of this, so feedback would be appreciated.

The tool kit for locking the timing is pretty reasonable (£40ish) so I reckon I can do the whole lot, including oil and plugs for under £200 (maybe more if the oil pump chain needs doing) with a couple of days of my time for faffing around.

 

[RUM4MO]

@skyrocketeer , I agree wrt TPS, us DIYers are not their target customer so I'd expect to get told the same. Maybe try CCP otherwise known as Coverdale Car Parts, the best way to contact Mike is via FB, it is only genuine VW Group Parts that he supplies for that sort of job, if his price is not better inc postage, then you can always say "thanks but no thanks" and head to your local dealership, but usually his prices are good enough to keep you away from your main dealership.

 

[Crossthreaded]

I struggle to get TPS's attention, as I'm not a business or a garage, they usually tell me to jog on.
A different dealer has said that all the bits I need to do the job comes to around £230/£240 though he didn't exactly state what was included. I've also been in touch with a Skoda parts supplier in Europe who can supply what appears to be a genuine kit for the job for just over 100Euros. I'm a little wary of this, so feedback would be appreciated.

The tool kit for locking the timing is pretty reasonable (£40ish) so I reckon I can do the whole lot, including oil and plugs for under £200 (maybe more if the oil pump chain needs doing) with a couple of days of my time for faffing around.

Same problem with TPS for me. I used to buy stuff for both my old 1.9TDI Cordoba - a car I miss greatly - and some of the Fabias there have been in the family. However once I'd retired and stopped my subscription to the IMI - so no longer had a valid card - they wouldn't deal with me any more. Last time I tried (probably about 5 years ago) I was told they would only deal with me if I had a trade account with them and they wouldn't do cash or card sales to me, so I gave up. Pity because they had been generally very helpful and a source of quality parts up to then. I've now become much less obsessed with buying genuine parts and buy from my local Factor (SRS), except for my oil which I'm very fussy about, and I've been doing this for the last 5 years and had absolutely no issues. - I do insist on "names" though, Mahle filters etc. Been servicing the Ibiza since she came out of warranty with these parts for the last 2 years and all fine so far.

 

[skyrocketeer]

Update:
Started the task today. Things I learned:
Haynes should not be trusted. After wrestling with trying to get the heat-shield off the turbo, to loose the cat/downpipe from it (as instructed) so I could drop the sump, rounding out one of the rusted on bolts on the front of it, pulled the bumper and drained the coolant to remove the radiators to improve access - well it all turns out the sump can be wiggled free with the exhaust/downpipe in place - grr.
Despite having a comprehensive toolkit I still found myself taping a 8mm splined bit into a 10mm spanner to undo the water pump pulley.
Someone was enthusiastic with the sealing goo on the sump at some point in the past, most of it appears to be in the oil pump pickup gauze.
Oil pump drive chain has lots of play, so that'll need replacing.

Still not got the old chain out, ran out of light, and as I'll need more parts before it goes back together the urgency is kinda off.

 

[skyrocketeer]

Some pics of the job so far, still waiting for oil pump chain and sprocket..

Bumper didn't need to come off in the end, but it was a bit easier to see the timing end of the engine from different angles with it gone.

All this old RTV sealant came out of the oil strainer pickup tube (the fluid is diesel):

New (rev G) & Old (rev D) crank sprocket, new one is about 1mm thicker on the timing chain side

New (rev F) & old (rev C) cam sprocket, again new one is about 1mm thicker.

New (rev F) & old (rev B) hydraulic tensioner - new one is substantially shorter and has a drain hole in the plunger

Pressing new sprocket onto crank shaft, bake at gas mk6 for 20 minutes before hand, and work quickly, using old crank pulley bolt to press it on with a short length of tube.

New (rev C) and old (ref E and F) chain guides, no difference to the depth or general shape


Width of new guide rails is a bit wider by 1mm or so.


Next task is to put the front bumper back on, and when the oil pump chain shows up fit that, the revised sprocket and then put it all back together. I'm also waiting on a spark lead puller so I can turn the engine over on the starter to prime the oil system before firing it up properly.

 

[skyrocketeer]

Yesterday saw the arrival of the Oil pump drive chain, sprocket and that annoying breather in the cam-cover which breaks. As is famously quoted, reassembly is the reverse of disassembly. I've found for optimum clearance when refitting the sump turn the engine to 90 degrees after tdc so the crank counterweights are lifted up out of the way of the sump pan, this would also make disassembly easier.

Got in a right pickle putting the arch liners and lower shield back on, I knew I was missing a few fasteners when it all came off, but on very close examination it turns out there are 3 slightly different types a finer thread screw, a coarse thread screw and one with a slight shoulder and blunt tip. No idea if they're in the right place but it's not all fallen off yet. Oh and Torx is the almost the worst fastener for this sort of thing, really difficult to locate when blind.

Pics for the curious...
New oil pump chain and sprocket fitted

New (left) and old timing chain

Fitted and timed up

Sealant goop on the timing cover:


Let the sealant set for a couple of hours then plonk the oil in: a whole 4 litres, including that what got tipped down the back of the engine block - stupid cam cover design means a funnel is really hard too locate in the filler port.
Coolant back in, well some of it, anyone got any suggestions on bleeding the air out of the cooling systems on these engines?
Checked for leaks, and then turned over the engine a bit with the coil-pack unplugged to prime the oil system a bit, then fire her up.
Not a rattle to be heard

 

[RUM4MO]

How to bleed the air out of these cooling systems? Well I bought a cheapish Draper cooling system vacuum refill thing, still to use it, but my car, a 2011 Audi S4, tends to suffer more than others in the bleeding stakes as the heater hoses and the supercharger heat exchangers are located higher up than the top of the coolant level in the reservoir. Also to help things along, I fabricated a vertical extension that I can will connect to the coolant reservoir after back filling the system, this job has been waiting to get done for a month or so as a hose end O-Ring is leaking slightly after getting nudged when I had the front end out into service position to replace the front end belts late last year.
Essentially all the normal VW Group engines should end up self bleeding via the coolant return pipe - I think/hope.

Edit:- currently looking a bit frosty outside, so I'll leave any garage work until Sunday or later!

So, what have you done wrt the parts you picked to fit, have you ignored the usual VW Group "upgrade easy fit by dealers" kit, and bought the proper parts that take this engine's chain system right up to the final as fitted at factory version of "chain bits"? I think that someone in Italy, in/on the UK-Polos did this instead of just buying the standard kits offered by VW Group dealers parts dept.

 

[skyrocketeer]

How to bleed the air out of these cooling systems? Well I bought a cheapish Draper cooling system vacuum refill thing, still to use it, but my car, a 2011 Audi S4, tends to suffer more than others in the bleeding stakes as the heater hoses and the supercharger heat exchangers are located higher up than the top of the coolant level in the reservoir. Also to help things along, I fabricated a vertical extension that I can will connect to the coolant reservoir after back filling the system, this job has been waiting to get done for a month or so as a hose end O-Ring is leaking slightly after getting nudged when I had the front end out into service position to replace the front end belts late last year.
Essentially all the normal VW Group engines should end up self bleeding via the coolant return pipe - I think/hope.

There's a document here from a Skoda related blog, that implies it's either self bleeding, or you need to fiddle around with a diagnostics computer, depending on whether there's auxilliary heating - whatever that is. I think I'll just drive it a bit and see if the level in the tank drops.

Edit:- currently looking a bit frosty outside, so I'll leave any garage work until Sunday or later!

So, what have you done wrt the parts you picked to fit, have you ignored the usual VW Group "upgrade easy fit by dealers" kit, and bought the proper parts that take this engine's chain system right up to the final as fitted at factory version of "chain bits"? I think that someone in Italy, in/on the UK-Polos did this instead of just buying the standard kits offered by VW Group dealers parts dept.

Trawled a few groups, and then bought the kit I mentioned above from Europe - I swapped a few emails confirming it would fit without issue. I then supplemented this with a new front crank seal (I got a decent Elring one, as it had the guide sleeve included) and then when it was apart I also chose to replace the oil pump chain, sprocket etc, so for expediency I got it from a local dealership. I checked the parts were the revised, wider chain, but I didn't get too hung up over weather I had the rev C or D chain cover (life's too short).

 

[RUM4MO]

From glancing at a few threads on a few forums, I gathered that the modified chain cover was essential for the first "improvement" - ie to help stop the chain jumping, but became rather redundant when doing things the best way using the later pulley etc - or maybe that was only for the early 1.2 3cylinder engines to help "improve" them slightly.

I don't think that anyone in UK will have ended up with an auxiliary heating system, ie a system using the vehicle fuel to heat a small boiler. My Audi actually has a water valve in cooling system that stops or allows coolant to pass through the heater core, I'm not sure why they chose that idea as all these cars have air blending on their cabin heater system, so I need to demand HOT air while bleeding the system at the two high bleed points. The cars with the later, ie 16V 1.2TSI have an extra electric coolant pump which dumps heat from the intercooler, and it returns its coolant through the reservoir via the small return pipe, so that will help when I decide to replace the 2015 Polo 1.2TSI coolant. On my S4, the electric pump with a similar job internally circulates the coolant so will not help so much during bleeding.

The worst car that I had, to sort out trapped air, was the 1.4 16V 2009 Ibiza, the only or best way to get rid of the initial trapped air was to remove the coolant temperature sensor while refilling and only fit it back in when bubble free coolant was coming out of where it fitted into. Days of driving around before doing that just resulted in a hot cabin heater output for a few minutes, then back to cold!

Edit:- actually, it would probably be a smart move for all forums to use this sort of proper "sort it out" thread, rather than a "repair/fixed it" one as a resource for others to consider. I can understand why no official VW Group dealership would fit these parts to sort out a worn chain as the price due to extra time would be too high for the customer, but I can see it makes a lot if sense for a DIYer to do themselves.

 

[Renee]

Thought I would make a reply to this old thread in case it could help anyone out in the future as I gained help from reading these replies myself however still came across hurdles. This won’t be an in-depth guide but I will try to put as much info as possible

I have just taken in this job on my driveway on a 2014 1.2 TSI Ibiza 6J but I presume it will be identical on any car with the CBZB engine. Although fairly mechanically minded and have swapped engines, rebuilt gearboxes etc this is my first timing chain and I was fairly nervous.

Firstly, be sure before you start the job which chain you have. There are two different types, one which has been superseded by a newer design for better reliability however this does require a new crankshaft and camshaft sprocket and tensioner.

https://ibb.co/b5jqwVQS
https://ibb.co/35tnQHdt

(The newer design is the one with the alternating plates on the chain, and the older one has 2 plates, one plate, 2 plates etc). I plugged my reg into GSF and purchased a FEBI kit which I assumed would work, however it came with the wrong (old) chain.

I therefore purchased the newer chain etc and cracked on.

It was all going fairly swimmingly, pulled the timing cover off prising off the horrific job the last bloke did and cleaning up all the extra silicone they left, got the engine locked in TDC and the cam locked, this is where my first piece of advice would be.

https://ibb.co/fYMwp5Vz
https://ibb.co/wZRV323c

Do NOT use the cheap timing tools. I’m always one for saving money where possible and buying the eBay/amazon Chinese reps of the proper brand however in this instance, don’t. Whilst removing the camshaft pulley even whilst counter holding with the correct tool the small amount of torque that was applied to it whilst removing sheered the thing off in the cam not once but twice (more fool me). After 2 failed attempts with the Amazon ones I purchased this laser one for £50 or so and the difference in material is night and day. Even the fitment into the cam slots felt nicer.

Next was removing the crankshaft pulley, no matter how hard I tried with a strong impact, with a counter hold tool and breaker bar I could not slack it off. I ended up using the trick of placing a breaker bar on it, jamming it up against the chassis and cranking the key. It whizzed right off. I then replaced the bolt finger tight so that my puller had something to pull from and not damage the crankshaft. I used a gear puller around the crankshaft sprocket and it came off a breeze.

This is where the next issue came about. When replacing the crankshaft sprocket, I placed it in the oven for 20-30 minutes at 200°c with the hope of expanding it enough to just slide on, as I have seen in videos. I have picked it up using mole grips and ran outside to slide it on and it got half way on before getting stuck. I have then begun using a different technique I’ve seen in another video where someone uses a length of pipe wider than the crankshaft but thin enough to touch the sprocket and the old crank bolt to wind it down. I have begun to wind it down until calamity… the crankshaft bolt becomes loose. I had stripped the threads in the crankshaft , it seems as though I only had a few threads engaged when I was putting them under immense stress by pushing a now cool friction fit sprocket onto the crankshaft. Needless to say I was pulling my hair out for the next few days whilst figuring out what to do. Genuinely considering replacing the entire engine if I needed to get the crank reconditioned, luckily a long M14 tap fixed it up and I was back at it.

I assumed the time it took for me to run the 50 foot from my oven to the car the sprocket contracted, therefore I purchased a MAPP torch of eBay for £40. Literally 10-20 seconds of this directed at the inner portion of the sprocket and it slid all the way on and seated nicely.

Now onto reassembly. Everything was going swimmingly up until it came to torquing the camshaft back up with the new chain installed. After checking both crank and cam are locked properly

https://ibb.co/GrpmgNz
https://ibb.co/v4nW1h61

I have begun the sequence of tightening the camshaft sprocket using the correct counter hold tool. I have had to do this about 3-4 times because after after completing the sequence and removing the tools, after rotating the engine twice, the camshaft would never quite lineup and would be a few teeth out. What I realised is that when I was counter-holding the crankshaft sprocket, I was putting just enough pressure on it slightly before I torqued the bolt down causing the engine to rotate ever so slightly backwards (away from the crankshaft locking tool) and then would torque the pulley down onto the shaft locking it slightly out of time. I presume this was due to my fear of snapping my new £50 laser cam lock after the Amazon debacle. After figuring this out, I ensured that I begun tightening the bolt ever slightly before I begun the counter hold pressure.

After that, the engine rotated twice and both crank lock and cam lock lined up perfectly. ( I had to re-check about 5 other times before buttoning up the timing cover due to being paranoid it would skip timing again.

I doused the new chain and sprockets in 5w-30 hoping to negate the horrible noise on start up, which didn’t help much. It still took a good 45 seconds of running before it quietened down to the usual tick of the 1.2 CBZB engine.

Hope this helps someone