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VW Woes... suppose to be coming to a headache today

Tell

Tell

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www.theguardian.com

VW faces protests in Germany over proposed job cuts and factory closures

Demonstrations at 18 sites set up as radical transformation plan put to board of Europe’s biggest carmaker
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

In other news BYD didnt get to invests in Renault... they said they wanted to own the company....

VW item lists the factories effected. This is the 100,000 jobs story. To me the Spanish sites seem to be coming out of this one fine. Probably better cost performance.
 
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Let's see if they have the audacity to keep using "German quality" arguments against rivals around the world, after closing the factories in their homeland.
 
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serdar_18fr said:
Let's see if they have the audacity to keep using "German quality" arguments against rivals around the world, after closing the factories in their homeland.
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Firstly, sorry for going off topic but picking up on the German quality thing. With VW, I think this is case of them living on their past glories, if the so called legendary VW German build quality ever was such a thing. IMHO many car manufacturers have overtaken VW in terms of build quality. If makes me smile when I periodically read comments on VW forums of VW’s being premium cars. Really? I might be wrong but I’ve always considered VW to be a manufacturer of mainstream, volume products; not premium vehicles.

Three of the five VW’s I owned were German built (at VW’s Wolfsburg production facility) and IMHO two of them fell somewhat short of the so called legendary German build quality. Those two cars had a fair few uneven panel gaps and had to go back to the dealer for them to adjust / correct. One of those cars also had bumper strips that should have been the same colour as the car; the inserts on the rear bumper were the wrong colour! It makes you wonder if there’s actually a post-build QC process in the factory or if the dealership carried out a PDI prior to the customer collecting the car 🤔.

The last VW I owned - built in VW’s Kariega factory in South Africa - was also quite poorly built; multiple uneven panel gaps and the plastic petrol filler flap could only be described as extremely flimsy and poorly fitting. There was also a dent in the rear right quarter panel on collection day; the dent might have happened after the car left the factory but wherever / whenever it happened, it should have been fixed before I saw the car! 😡. I was on the verge of rejecting the car, but this was during Covid and I’d waited many months for it to be built and didn’t want to wait a similar length of time for a replacement. Oh, and one of the weld seams between the roof and side panel above the driver’s door also started showing signs of corrosion at around 18 months old (not due to stone chip damage or any other external damage). Poor build quality plus declining customer service at the dealership during my ownership of that car pushed me to leave VW after 22 years and I’ve no regrets in having done so.

The best built VW I owned was a previous generation Polo GTI built at Pamplona in Spain; almost perfect apart from a small paint imperfection on the nearside sill.
 
My two cents:

Build quality differs dramatically throughout the VW group, both in terms of material quality and workmanship. In that respect - Vw and Skoda are better than Seat/Cupra and Audi is better than all of them.
Labour rates across Europe differ greatly, with Germany being the highest.

The automotive trade over there is considered to be incredibly important and the workers in the factories, dealerships etc are highly regarded. It's not like in the UK where the general public view all salesman as scum bag rip-off merchants and mechanics as stupid grease monkeys who didn't do well in school.

Only Audi (out of the main VWG brands) can call itself a true, premium product. An easy measure of such a claim is if you can get one on motability it isn't premium and it definitely isn't luxury.

Mainstream, mid-range and volume products are terms that pop up regularly in the same sentence as the aforementioned brands.
 
Ah well my Atecas is a Skoda so I'm alright. Built in that Skoda factory. Cupra Terramar is built in an Audi factory. Tavascan in China's VW associated operation. Pass on the Leon 4 etc. You could pen where each is built or use their handout:

Production facilities

www.seat-cupra-mediacenter.com www.seat-cupra-mediacenter.com

The Raval and ID.Polo, the new drive on affordable EVs in Europe are made in the newly fitted out Spanish factory.

Going to be how profitable those factories are (German factories) and the pay off to close them. Two of them according to that article can be closed without consensus of the board without worker representation.

The Spanish factories seem to have come out of it well although that wasn't the initial spin of the break up of Seat from Cupra. The Seat factories were suppose to be making cycles or something. But a year latter or something the King of Spain was opening a new factory. Reality is Cupra hasn't broken up from Seat. Seat still design the sub brand 🤫.

Anyhow for those on holiday in Spain found the ideal thing. A Seat factory tour:

 
and this is the latest on Reuters on the subject

Screenshot 2026-07-10 at 23.03.01.png

Screenshot 2026-07-10 at 23.10.09.png



Screenshot 2026-07-10 at 23.10.20.png


So it does not look good for VAG Group or Germany economy.
 
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Well the German economy is like ours moving to post industrial / service economy as manufacturing is moved out to developing nations with lower cost base. You each do what you are good at.

Brexiters love to use the decline of the German economy as why we needed Brexit so as to hook up elsewhere. That, that they didnt understand the EU as a co-operative club where you invest and get markets. No investment and you don't get access to the markets. Obviously they didnt like political co-operation and open borders in the EU. Now holiday makers can enjoy the queues to leave and enter. British rock / pop bands can't play abroad due to visa restrictions on two months out or something. The boats still keep arriving. Funny that one. They can't be sent back the same as when we were in the EU. No Boris bulge before Brexit.
 
Well it was originally 100,000. Then 50,000 came up. Now back to 100,000. 50,000 seemed to be the modelled answer from their excess costs compared to the norm... but if you closed the factories 100,000. So one is the modelled answer, the other is what's in the factories. I'll put my consultancy fee into Vag. ;)

The best of it is they can't offload those factories to Chinese car manufactures, they have looked and drawn a blank so far. Unit costs are lower outside Germany in the EU, why Vag has manufacturing in those non German EU regions as well. Cost of living and costs associated with new factories.
 
Well the Germans are ramping up there defense industries so these spaces could be used for that.

I would also add 50 or 100 is only the VAG Part, there will be a lot of local and global companies impacted so the number will be higher
 
tracktoy said:
Well the Germans are ramping up there defense industries so these spaces could be used for that.

I would also add 50 or 100 is only the VAG Part, there will be a lot of local and global companies impacted so the number will be higher
Click to expand...
My understanding is that many parts are already made by OEM manufacturers who are supplying to multi brands, and which should not be affected - the product life cycles of modern cars are getting shorter (especially when EVs are becoming more popular), e.g. more trailing arms are needed due to more vehicles are sold, while such manufacturing process cannot be replaced by AI....
 
Well in my opinion you have the issue that VAG are reducing the number of ICE Motors they build so the supply chains will be impacted.
You also have the US Tariffs that mean VAG and BMW (and probably Merc as well) prices have increased and sales are reduced.
In China the German car industry is no longer doing as well

Yes the EV's are taking over in Europe but they do not need the number of parts that an ICE motor needs so again supply chains are going to suffer

If you loose a lot of people in an industry (look at the welsh mining communities) then the local economy is impacted.

Having said that the German Unions and the Local Govt are strongly apposed to this so we will see what happens
 
Well the Welsh don't want to go back down the coal mines. Funny that one surprised Farage et al. You can have a mining experience at the Big Pit instead. Service economy.

Big Pit National Coal Museum | Museum Wales

Visit us for free at Big Pit, a real coal mine with underground tours, miner guides and a warm welcome. Explore south Wales’ history of coal and industry, and enjoy our family activities and events.
museum.wales museum.wales

I passed on going underground with sciatica I'd get stuck bending and each had to carry 5kg or something of lights :unsure:. The younger relatives all trotted off down the mine shaft lift.

Well VAG are reducing the ICE model range so the jobs will go whether the unions or regional governments like it or not.
 
We will have to wait for outcome but unless EU does something to stop the imports it does not look great.

www.carscoops.com

VW Group Is Killing Half Its Cars By 2030, And Some Big Names Are At Risk | Carscoops

The German giant is realigning its business, targeting 9 million units a year and cutting redundant platforms and niche models to stay competitive
www.carscoops.com www.carscoops.com

Skoda should walk away from the cull in decent shape, though a slow seller like the Scala hatchback has slim odds of a follow-up. Seat looks set to stay small and cheap, while Cupra takes the bigger cut on the strength of a pricier, sportier, more profitable mix. If Volkswagen follows through with its strategy, maintaining overlapping Seat and Cupra models could become increasingly difficult, raising the possibility of an even smaller role for Seat.
 
Well Seat being a dead end as EVs via Cupra take the market. The demise of not having Cupra as a subbrand. They started a new brand off at the wrong time. It was to take it up market but with the demise of ICE it means Cupra is electric, wont please the ICE people who want beefy ICE engines. You could have lower models badged as Seat or take Skoda models and have Seat ones like the Ateca and Karog. This is where Seat could have it's own Elrog, same relation as the Karog to the Elrog but Ateca etc. Why existing Seat only dealers needed to extend their franchise to Cupra.

I was told there were supposed to be Seat hybrids coming along in 2028. What dealers get tipped in their briefings. Seat till 2030 has an ICE life and may be hybrid somewhere between then, a blank sheet of paper and EVs after. That's been said. Seat doesnt get access to the VAG EV parts bin till 2030. If the Seat factories are fully busy building other Vag cars, does it matter. Probably not. You could always buy a Cupra.
 
Tell said:
Well Seat being a dead end as EVs via Cupra take the market. The demise of not having Cupra as a subbrand. They started a new brand off at the wrong time. It was to take it up market but with the demise of ICE it means Cupra is electric, wont please the ICE people who want beefy ICE engines. You could have lower models badged as Seat or take Skoda models and have Seat ones like the Ateca and Karog. This is where Seat could have it's own Elrog, same relation as the Karog to the Elrog but Ateca etc. Why existing Seat only dealers needed to extend their franchise to Cupra.

I was told there were supposed to be Seat hybrids coming along in 2028. What dealers get tipped in their briefings. Seat till 2030 has an ICE life and may be hybrid somewhere between then, a blank sheet of paper and EVs after. That's been said. Seat doesnt get access to the VAG EV parts bin till 2030. If the Seat factories are fully busy building other Vag cars, does it matter. Probably not. You could always buy a Cupra.
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VAG should ask who the targeted customers for SEAT in the short term:

Current SEAT owners being loyal to the brand?
A would-be Audi owner without a budget?
A would-be Dacia owner wanting a bit more prestigeness?
A would-be MG/BYD/Geely owner who is considering a PHEV or an outright EV?
A would-be Ford/Vauxhall/Toyota owner who doesn't really care about what to drive?
Or just any car lover with a passion and a calculated mind?
 
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