1.2TSi ignition pack failure - anyone else?

[znww5]

It wouldn't have been so bad if it had happened on the way back from the chippy, but that would have been too easy wouldn't it?

Coming off a roundabout it was obvious that I was now driving a car with a 3 cylinder engine, and when he turned up Mr AA man agreed. I had it towed so that the cat didn't get a petrol rinse and left it with SEAT MK.

So my question is this, has anybody else had an ignition pack failure on these engines? Mine is an 11 plate 1.2TSi DSG with about 20k on the clock.

 

[NetworkMan]

No trouble so far.

I googled for it too but all that was obvious were failures on 1.4 twin-chargers.

I suppose that the block at the rear of the cam cover has four individual coils in it and one of them has failed. My old Honda Civic had individual coils on the ends of the spark plugs. I think that's a better system since the long HT leads just aren't there.

Mine, a manual, is almost two years old now and the only failure was a seat weld when it was almost new.

 

[znww5]

Thanks for the reply NM. The AA guy reckoned these engines use the 'wasted spark' system, but I don't follow the logic of that as in wasted spark ignition, you'd expect 2 cylinders to fail if one of the two packs went bang.

Still, the lack of response on here seems to reinforce the idea that it is a rare failure, which is rather what I was hoping!

 

[Seat-Ibiza-jake]

I have a 12 plate 1.2 TSI (manual)

it has about 3000 mile on. I'm not 100% sure because I'm no mechanic but, when I first turn my car on its takes a second or two to come on... like the starter motor is broken or something.

I've had other cars, Honda Civic type R (EP3), 106 GTI, 207 and it wan't like that.

but then again none of them have a turbo so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it??

Seem's worse when its cold.

 

[znww5]

Hi SI-jake,

With an ignition pack failure you get a very pronounced 'thop, thop, thop' noise from the exhaust at tick-over and a noticeable loss of power - or no power at all if the pack has totally failed!

Your problem sounds much more like either a sticky starter motor solenoid, and/or the bendix sticking on the starter motor shaft. I'd certainly get that looked at as I've never had a problem like that with mine and you could find yourself unable to start the car at all if it gets worse.

Just to be clear, are you saying that when you turn the key to the 'start' position, nothing at all happens for a second or two, or are you saying that the engine is being cranked by the starter for that time, but not firing?

 

[Seat-Ibiza-jake]

Hi SI-jake,

With an ignition pack failure you get a very pronounced 'thop, thop, thop' noise from the exhaust at tick-over and a noticeable loss of power - or no power at all if the pack has totally failed!

Your problem sounds much more like either a sticky starter motor solenoid, and/or the bendix sticking on the starter motor shaft. I'd certainly get that looked at as I've never had a problem like that with mine and you could find yourself unable to start the car at all if it gets worse.

Just to be clear, are you saying that when you turn the key to the 'start' position, nothing at all happens for a second or two, or are you saying that the engine is being cranked by the starter for that time, but not firing?

The second one... hopefully its nothing to worry about, the car is just trying to start for a second. I think it might be because my previous cars have done it instantly... I'm not sure though, do you think I need to get it checked?

 

[Jarre]

I've had loss of power today, cars in the dealers now. AA were called out and diagnosed P0304 - Cylinder 4 misfire.

Looks like it needs a new coil pack!

 

[znww5]

I think the error code is a bit of a catch-all, ie it can be the coil-pack, the HT lead, the spark plug or the injector (plus a few other things) - so it really only identifies which cylinder had the problem. The AA doesn't have a full diagnostic capability so really you only get to know that it's 'broke' - which you know already of course!
My car was first registered in April 2011, I wonder if there was a duff batch of coilpacks?
I'd be interested to know what SEAT find as I've not heard of other 1.2TSi's having coilpack problems.

 

[harry171]

Failing leads seems to be the cause popping up at the moment.

 

[Jarre]

Mine was September 2010 registered.

It's in the dealer now so we'll see what they say, hopefully it gets sorted quick!

 

[znww5]

I should have said that SEAT replaced the ignition pack and 2 HT leads, the car had done around 18,000 miles at the time.

 

[Jarre]

I should have said that SEAT replaced the ignition pack and 2 HT leads, the car had done around 18,000 miles at the time.

Okay that's good to know. Hopefully I'll receive a call tomorrow about their diagnosis and what will be replaced. Once I find out I'll post on here cheers!

 

[Jarre]

Coil pack replaced, error gone. There's still an error relating to a canbus issue. The car still doesn't drive properly and gets dash lights coming on. The dealer won't investigate further until its put back to standard fully in terms of electrical mods. All bulbs, sub woofer, and stereo need to be standard.

 

[znww5]

I'm struggling to see how lighting and audio can affect the ignition system unless you are running a huge amplifier - are they saying that a faulty bulb or after-market radio can bring the car to its knees?! Sounds like they have run out of ideas and are playing for time. I would ask them for the 'new' error codes and do a bit of research if I were you.

Hope you get it fixed before Santa turns up

 

[Jarre]

Well now at a different dealer. Same problem. An aftermarket stereo and sub woofer are consider 'Too many modifications, really we shouldn't even be looking at the car'. FFS I've had enough. Will never ever buy seat again.

 

[znww5]

In the light of what harry171 said regarding HT leads it might be an idea to test them with a multi-meter - there's nothing to lose !

 

[AsturRS]

Sorry for bumping up the thread, but i have the same problem.

2500km ago the HT lead #3 died, my leon (1P1 my2011) was towed to the dealership and they changed the HT leads #2 and #3, they are not OEM parts, instead they used some BERU ones (They have a corrugated tube covering the nearest zone of the lead to the exhaust manifold). The car ran so far so good untill today, commuting from work suddenly started to run on 3 cylinders again, i arrived home, plugged in the VCDS and now my HT Lead #1 (Still OEM) is dead too.

I don't know if all of the OEM leads were faulty from factory, but i believe this is a symptom, not the disease. My thoughts point to a faulty coilpack. Tomorrow the car will be towed to dealership again, let's see what they do.

P.S: Sorry for my bad English, i'm from Spain.

 

[Xanthianx]

reading this does not fill me with confidence about my new 1.2tsi :S

 

[NetworkMan]

For what it's worth I read (can't recall where) that it is indeed a "wasted spark" system. There are just two coils in the ignition transformer so that when one cylinder fires at the top of the compression stroke the other one fires at the top of the exhaust stroke. Does this cause the plugs to wear out faster I wonder? Perhaps not - there is not much pressure in the cylinder at the end of the exhaust stroke.

 

[znww5]

AsturRS - you write better English than many people who know no other language - welcome to the forum!

BERU - is a division of Borg-Warner ( the automatic transmission people ) and is based in Germany. The company seems to specialise in ignition components such as ignition packs and coil-on-plug assemblies.


There are three things which caught my attention regarding the ignition pack failures:

i) it always seems to involve the HT leads
ii) the HT leads seem to have a track record of failing and
iii) production year 2011 may be a common factor.


Although I find it difficult to believe that somebody would design an ignition pack which had inadequate short-circuit or open-circuit protection for the HT side, the involvement of the HT leads would suggest that is the case. My HT leads (including the two new ones) have no manufacturers markings at all - and it is interesting that AsturRS has had multiple failures of his OEM leads too, but the replacements seem to be OK.


So, is it simply a case of a faulty batch of HT leads being fitted in late 2010 / early 2011 which caused the ignition pack to fail? Or was it a case of faulty leads and a poorly designed ingnition pack?


PS Does anybody know if there has been a change to the part number for the ignition pack, suggesting a re-design?