1.6 16v or 1.9 TDi?

[RJP]

I've been looking at cars to replace what I've got at the moment. I want something relatively sporty but because of my young age (20, 21 in a few months) I am restricted in insurance and being a student means limited cash-flow. The Leon attracted me because it looks good, and is comprised of largely VW and Audi components yet doesn't have a stupid price tag that good cars can often carry (unless you want a boring common-mobile like a Focus or Astra). Budget would be up to around £2,500 I think, which looks like covers the first half of the Mk1's.

I've done some research with various review websites and Parker's guide for info on the Leon Mk1. It appears that both the 1.6 16v and the 1.9 TDi are very similar to each other for performance and economy. The biggest difference I could find was the taxation bands that they fall into, with the 1.6 being one or two bands more expensive than the 1.9 TDi. But this is likely to be only a tank or two's worth of fuel at most.

I'm drawn to the 1.6 16v petrol because it doesn't sound like a van, and is quite revvy. But the TDi's reduced tax and better mpg is also something I'm drawn to being so money-minded courtesy of studentism. What I'm most concerned about is the potential costs for maintenance or fixing of the TDi, as I know for definite that turbochargers are not cheap, nor are injector pumps! I also know that modern injectors can be quite pricey to replace too. Whereas the petrol engine would (I assume) be no more sophisticed than lets say my father's 1994 Mercedes 320 CE (coupe)?

What do people think is the best one out of the two to go for?

All other thoughts and opinions welcome.

 

[CooperC]

TDI all the way mate

 

[RJP]

Well I've just been reading about turbochargers for the 1.9 TDi. £500 is a lot of money for a skint student, should the turbocharger's seals or bearings expire! That's one big reason why the petrol appears better for me. But I'm open to being proven wrong!

If you don't mind me asking, what makes you say that the TDi is better, CooperC?

I think I ought to mention that I would be servicing and maintaining the vehicle myself.

 

[markmeus]

Much more potential for remapping if you want more power, and probably more torque to begin with.

I wouldnt worry about the price of parts, a petrol could give just as much bother, and the diesel will probably hold it's value better, especially once your into the higher miles.

 

[CooperC]

Much more potential for remapping if you want more power, and probably more torque to begin with.

I wouldnt worry about the price of parts, a petrol could give just as much bother, and the diesel will probably hold it's value better, especially once your into the higher miles.

Thats just bout what i was gonna say... i would'nt even consider the 1.6 16v, a leons a bit too heavy for an engine that size and there aint really much worth doing to it that will give a big enough power increase... But a tdi will have more torque than the petrol and you could see a better improvement with a remap.
I wouldn't worry bout costs of parts... Just get a decent one in the first place that you know's bin looked after with service history etc

 

[RJP]

Okay, that's cool.

I'm getting a bit confused about one thing then. The 1.9 TDi came in two main varients (excluding the sports versions). The 90 and 110. Are these two 1.9 TDi engines identical apart from the engine mapping? Or are there mechanical differences between them?

I'm asking this because it looks like the S has the 90 engine while the SE has the 110. I'd prefer the latter but I don't want to exclude the S if one came up that was worth having.

 

[james walker]

Well I've just been reading about turbochargers for the 1.9 TDi. £500 is a lot of money for a skint student, should the turbocharger's seals or bearings expire! That's one big reason why the petrol appears better for me. But I'm open to being proven wrong!

If you don't mind me asking, what makes you say that the TDi is better, CooperC?

I think I ought to mention that I would be servicing and maintaining the vehicle myself.

bit negative to be thinking of fixing something that isnt broken, petrol engines can go as wrong in different ways, if its looked after and serviced regularly using correct grade quality oil then you will have no issues. many turbos gone to 150k plus with no issues

1.6 16v will feel slow compared to the tdi, where the torque is greater, and as said mapped the tdi will be transformed.

also get the 110 all day long

 

[CooperC]

Okay, that's cool.

I'm getting a bit confused about one thing then. The 1.9 TDi came in two main varients (excluding the sports versions). The 90 and 110. Are these two 1.9 TDi engines identical apart from the engine mapping? Or are there mechanical differences between them?

I'm asking this because it looks like the S has the 90 engine while the SE has the 110. I'd prefer the latter but I don't want to exclude the S if one came up that was worth having.

Yeh mate they all use the same 1.9 engine... including the fr's and cupra's... as far as i know the only difference's are the ecu software, turbo's, injectors, etc.

Go for the 110 if ya can... they remap to bout 140ish and then you'd be looking back laughing at all the 1.6's

 

[millsyscossie]

Would never ever considor the petrol over the tdi unless it was to have the lc/lcr if fuel wasnt an issue either

 

[França]

Go for the tdi
it lasts longer, the maintenance its morer or less the same and if you have the normal cares that you must have with a turbo veicule it will last for a life time.

i own a 1.9 tdi with 90 bhp pulling 17 inch rims and it makes 460 miles with one tank

 

[RJP]

Does anyone know when these engines start getting on a bit? 150,000 miles? 200,000 miles? It's just I have seen quite a lot around the 100,000 miles region, I'm going to presume that the car has plenty of life left in it if it has been looked after up to this point?

 

[França]

i have seen vag diesel engines with 160.000 miles with a lot of life in them

 

[RJP]

That's good to know.

So to confirm, what exactly is different between the 90 and 110 apart from obvious performance differences?

 

[França]

the 90 bhp with the agr engine as a normal turbo the 90 bhp alh engine and the 110 bhp both have a variable geometry turbo
but the only diferences betwen the 90 bhp alh engine and the 110 bhp are the software and the injectors pressures and the obvious power diference that you can easily solve with a powerbox or a remap

 

[RJP]

That sounds fantastic, so a ALH 90 can become a 110 with just some alterations to its ECU software? Are the injectors actually the same as well?

How do I easily tell the difference between the EGR and ALH varients?

 

[França]

That sounds fantastic, so a ALH 90 can become a 110 with just some alterations to its ECU software? Are the injectors actually the same as well?

How do I easily tell the difference between the EGR and ALH varients?

yep if you alter the ecu software of the alh engine it will become a 110, the injectors aren´t the same but the alh engine are very similar and are more than enough to a soft remap.

in the distribution belt cover theres a sticker with some numbers and a 3 letters code: ALH or AGR if the engine is a 90 bhp

 

[RJP]

So remaps are preferred over the powerbox? Is this because the powerbox just changes some basic variables like how much fuel is injected without altering boost?

 

[França]

in the trunk near the spare tire theres a sticker like this one, the arrow that i drew indicates the place of the engine code



if the remap is well done it is preferred. the powerbox is enough just for a litlle fun and it just alters some variables like fuel injection the turbo pressions arent alterred

 

[itfben]

i have a 1.6 16v mate, great fun car! I still wish I got a 1.9 TDI then realise that by the time i have paid extra on the insurance and the actual car itself the prices would even out after a years petrol or so which is when i would upgrade anyway.

PLUS i would still have to deal with the sound of a diesel. I just couldn't do it, and to sort that out you gota throw some money at it to drown it out!

My mate has a 06 plate golf 1.9 tdi mk5 and they are evenly matched.


Just a few things for you to think about.

 

[França]

itfben to me theres no sound like the diesel sound but thats me.
the mk5 golf to me it´s a dead car with no power inspite of it´s 105 bhp my leon 1.9 tdi with 90 bhp with 17 inch rims is faster and more nervous than the mk5 golf with 16 inch rims, both engines are stock