1.8 TSI 180 PS vs 2.0 TDI 183 PS

[CyberGene]

I am going to order a new Leon SC FR on Monday. I was strongly determined on the 1.8 TSI since my current Leon mk2 is also 1.8 TSI (albeit 160 HP) and I love it! Until today...

I have just test driven the 2.0 TDI 184 PS and I liked it very much - it sounds pleasant almost like a gasoline, the throttle response is so sharp (especially in sport mode) and there's so much power and torque. And so I am in a dilemma now. I am not a high mileage driver though. With my current Leon I've been doing 12000 km per year on average (~7500 miles). I've done a rough calculation showing me that the price premium of the diesel car will be exactly compensated by the low consumption compared to the gasoline but is it worth it?

What do you think?

 

[Stegor]

The diesel because you will also get some of the price premium back when you sell.

 

[Hugo Nebula]

I'm a convinced DERV-head, so I'm biased; if they made a 184 BHP 2.0TDi with DSG, I'd order one tomorrow. However, they don't (yet?).

I've owned a 2.0TSI (200 BHP) Mk 2 before my current 170 BHP TDI. I've also test driven the Mk3 1.8 TSi, and the new Golf GTD (with the 184 BHP 2.0TDi). IMHO, the similar BHP (PS/kW) for each engine doesn't tell the full story. In day-to-day driving, the extra torque makes a big difference for the diesel. It means the car will pull away more quickly at lower revs. Unless you are a boy-racer who likes to rev the nuts off your car, you can't make full use of the power of a petrol engine.

Having said that, in purely economic terms, the extra purchase price of the diesel car tends to outweigh the fuel savings unless you drive a relatively high mileage. Common wisdom has it that (in the UK at least), that break-even figure is around 15,000 miles (25,000km) per year. I don't know what the price difference between the models, and the cost of fuel is in Bulgaria (in the UK, diesel fuel is more expensive than petrol), so your figures may be accurate.

 

[Seal_LCR]

If you are doing 7500 miles a year it's pointless getting the diesel!

 

[matt_s]

If you are driving the car that little, do you do enough long journeys to keep the particulate filter healthy?

 

[CyberGene]

The diesel version is about £1100 more than 1.8 TSI with the discount (as a loyal SEAT customer). Not that expensive. And the diesel fuel here's the same price as the 100-octane gasoline which I am usually putting in my 1.8 TSI, namely £1.2 for a liter (£5.46 for imperial gallon). My calculations show me that for my mileage and in 5-years it would make no difference if I buy diesel or the gasoline. However I have just realized that I could have probably traveled a bit more with my car if it was more economical.

I am more inclined toward diesel. Who could have believed it... I used to hate diesel cars

 

[Ashworth]

Don't completely dismiss the 1.8 TSi. I went into my local dealer way back in March to order a 184 TDi but they wouldn't take an order for it saying it won't be available until November at the earliest. That has turned out not to be the case as they are available now.
I decided to order a 1.8 TSi instead and I love it. My previous car was the 2.0 TDi 170 CR and I find the 1.8 petrol a much more fun car to drive. I'm really glad I changed to petrol although I do agree the 184 TDi is probably a great car too. I'm currently on holiday in Scotland and finding my 1.8 TSi so much better than my previous diesel on winding hilly roads. It just goes so well and effortlessly up mountainous roads. Also on the way up from Nottingham I averaged 47 mpg on the motorway at 70 mph with cruise control on. Not bad for a 1.8 petrol engine. I'm getting approx 40 mpg on fairly mixed motoring journeys and 35 mpg on shorter urban journeys. Nowhere as good on fuel as the diesel bit I rarely do more than 10,000 miles in a year and so it doesn't worry me too much. Also, in contrast to my current holiday in Scotland many of my journeys are often quite short.

 

[CyberGene]

I've forgotten about the DPF, that could be a show stopper in my case. Speaking of which, how is the DPF supposed to be regenerated? As far as I know, the egine should be driven continuously for some time above some RPM but I am no tusre about exact figures. Is this described in the manual, for example "drive 10 minutes above 3000 RPM"? And how often should this be performed, do I have to do it as often as possible or I can wait for the message telling me to clean the filter this way?

In any case the thought of doing this makes me want the gasoline more than diesel again...

 

[cilurnum]

I've forgotten about the DPF, that could be a show stopper in my case. Speaking of which, how is the DPF supposed to be regenerated?

I just posted a thread sort of along the line of this very query.

As I understand it the new VAG engines are much better and as long as you do a journey once a week at A road speeds more than 40mph then you should be fine. Apparently the new engines are far quicker to heat up, especially in winter, and this helps with economy and getting the DPF burning off the pollutants. I don't have first hand knowledge of them yet though, hence my query.

 

[cilurnum]

If you are driving the car that little, do you do enough long journeys to keep the particulate filter healthy?

It's not the amount of miles you do but the type of driving that affects the DPF. From an economic point of view you want to be doing enough miles or keep the car for a long period of time to offset the extra cost.

 

[DeanC]

I was looking at this with my bro. Come out as a no brainer for the diesel on pure economics but he would prefer a petrol for the drive. Anyway here's what we were thinking:

£1800 more to buy

£400 less a year on fuel
£105 less a year on tax
£130 less on insurance

So over a typical 3 year cycle he would save £1900 which pays for itself but then you get close to the initial outlay back when you flog it or hand it back so then you are quids in.

Didn't look at service intervals.

 

[cilurnum]

Interesting that insurance is less. Insurance on petrol is less for me.

 

[DeanC]

I thought that as the tdi is one group higher

 

[DeanC]

In reality though it's the depreciation that is key. We did a few pcp quotes and at 10k pa the tdi was about £20-30 a month cheaper because it has a higher GFV.

 

[cilurnum]

Personally, I think depreciation will be a killer on the 1.8. Yes, the diesel looks quite a bit more expensive versus the tax and fuel you'll save but I cannot see at all how the cost of a petrol will not go up dramatically over the next few years in tax and fuel costs. When fuel costs go up petrol always rises proportionately more to diesel and so diesel becomes more attractive. It's a vicious downward cycle.

I'm also a bit jittery on diesel reliability as well, but I just see the 1.8 becoming a dead end to run.