1.8 TSI DSG Leon vs. 1.8 TFSI S-tronic A3

[stephenc]

What are the fundamental differences between these two cars? Is it simply the interior materials and features, or are they different underneath?

I'm assuming the FR SEAT Leon is equivalent to a Sport or S-Line Audi A3.

From what I understand they both have the following in common:

• Multi-link suspension
• Dynamic drive profiles
• Dual-clutch gearbox (is S-tronic really different?)
• 1.8 Litre T(F)SI Engine (the only difference being the 'F')

I drove a 1.8 TFSI today and it somehow did feel better than the 1.8 TSI Leon I drove a few weeks ago. The steering felt heavier and the ride was smoother in general, with speed bumps barely noticeable. Just wanted to find out whether I'm imagining it or if there is a big difference between the two brands?

 

[James_R]

Are we talking two vehicles of the same age here?

 

[stephenc]

Are we talking two vehicles of the same age here?

Yes, both current generation and brand new.

 

[James_R]

I can imagine they are more than likely identical engines and gearboxes but cleverly renamed so's not to associate the two brands too closely.

That's what I've seen in the past anyway.

 

[James_R]

And the running gear always tends to be shared on vw group platformed cars so expect it to be the same for the mk7 golf, Octavia, Leon mk3 and latest incarnation of the A3.

 

[dieselface]

Yeah they are both CJSA or CJSB engine codes. Not sure on other differences.

 

[SeatLion]

If you understand Spanish...:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUTxAV1rRQM

 

[AndrewJB]

Exactly the same other than looks and interior etc

AUDI are selling TSI engines badged up as TFSI

SEAT has sold TFSI engines badged us TSI (MK2 Leon Cupra R for example log book says TSI)

 

[J400uk]

Its fascinating how similar they are under the skin yet each feels/ looks very different in and out. The differences are certainly narrower at this end of the range. Further down if you compare the 1.4 TSI Leon to the 1.4 TFSI A3 we loose Multilink suspension and the Cylinder deactivation technology. The only other difference I can think of applicable to all versions is the handbrake which is mechanical on the Leon and electric on the A3.

The devil is in the detail though and this time round the Leon suffers from a fair amount of cost cutting. Some of it is just daft like a lack of fan washers for the windscreen and plastic instead of chrome on the key fob. I covered a few here last year - http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=364435

 

[stephenc]

Its fascinating how similar they are under the skin yet each feels/ looks very different in and out. The differences are certainly narrower at this end of the range. Further down if you compare the 1.4 TSI Leon to the 1.4 TFSI A3 we loose Multilink suspension and the Cylinder deactivation technology. The only other difference I can think of applicable to all versions is the handbrake which is mechanical on the Leon and electric on the A3.

The devil is in the detail though and this time round the Leon suffers from a fair amount of cost cutting. Some of it is just daft like a lack of fan washers for the windscreen and plastic instead of chrome on the key fob. I covered a few here last year - http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=364435

Thanks for this. I have to agree; although on paper the Leon is identical to the A3, it does feel more luxurious to drive.

Would an FR Leon be equivalent to an S-line A3 or Sport A3?

 

[Fred99]

Further down if you compare the 1.4 TSI Leon to the 1.4 TFSI A3 we loose Multilink suspension and the Cylinder deactivation technology.

I accept that the multi link suspension is a plus for the driver but the ACT , just like Start/
Stop is just to keep the official emissions figures down but has no benefit at all to the owner apart from a tiny theoretical improvement in the fuel consumption.

The EU emissions rules have certainly improved the emissions but do they really add anything to the driving experience?

 

[Shiners]

I accept that the multi link suspension is a plus for the driver but the ACT , just like Start/
Stop is just to keep the official emissions figures down but has no benefit at all to the owner apart from a tiny theoretical improvement in the fuel consumption.

The EU emissions rules have certainly improved the emissions but do they really add anything to the driving experience?

I can only speak from personal experience here. When I test drove a Mk7 Golf GTI, I was totally underwhelmed with the (dire lack of) sound from the engine compared to the Mk5 GTI I owned at the time. I found the performance the same - it 'appeared' to lack and felt totally sanitised. The immature and patronising attitude of the salesman put the icing on the cake and I walked... into the local Seat dealership instead and was pleasantly surprised

 

[skidpan]

I looked at the Audi 1.4 TFSi SE and Golf 1.4 TSi GT when I bought the Leon 1.4 TSi SE.

The Audi and Golf did not offer any more as a car than the Leon, they may to some people have a better badge and possibly slightly better trim but there was absolutely nothing wrong with the Leon.

After 5 1/2 months my opinion has not changed, its every bit as good as the BMW 1 series it replaced.

But the important factor to me was value. The Seat was £4700 less than the Audi and £5900 less than the Golf. In fairness the Golf was slightly better equipped as well but non of those features mattered to me, in particular the cylinder deactivation technology is another waste of time, great on the EU tests, no value on the road.

 

[Max Damage]

I accept that the multi link suspension is a plus for the driver but the ACT , just like Start/
Stop is just to keep the official emissions figures down but has no benefit at all to the owner apart from a tiny theoretical improvement in the fuel consumption.

The EU emissions rules have certainly improved the emissions but do they really add anything to the driving experience?

Based on my journey to work and watching the fuel being burned/not burned then start/stop is a good benefit to fuel consumption for me and not theoretical

 

[StevenM]

The residual value of the A3 will be higher than the Leon which means you would recoup some of the extra outlay when you trade-in or sell on.

Of course this only applies if you are buying for personal use, if it's a company car then get whichever you prefer and fish the residuals! ;-)


Sent from my piece of shite iPhone - according to Muz.

 

[Max Damage]

Yup I went for the LEON as it had the 184 diesel in a good package that completely outshone the A3 for the same lease money. On lease the A3 s line 150 diesel was £40 a month more without any extras, compared to the Leon 184 plus £2.5k of extras

 

[skidpan]

Based on my journey to work and watching the fuel being burned/not burned then start/stop is a good benefit to fuel consumption for me and not theoretical

Owned a BMW with stop/start for 5 1/2 years. Over the years on my 30 minute morning commute I checked the mpg with and without stop/start operating, difficult to say if it made any difference overall but over several trips to average out traffic abnormalities there was no measurable change. It may have saved fuel but only a tiny amount. But when you consider the extra price for the special battery needed when it croaks you are well out of pocket, luckily my battery went under warranty.

One thing stop/start does is lower the official CO2 and thus the annual RFL, that is a cost saving.

Cylinder deactivation also lowers CO2, the Golf with it is £10 a year less than a Leon without it. Worth the extra, not really.

 

[skidpan]

The residual value of the A3 will be higher than the Leon which means you would recoup some of the extra outlay when you trade-in or sell on.

The residual value of the A3 will undoubtedly be higher than the Leon but not by £4700. At 5 years old I am confident that the money lost on my Leon will be substantially less than I would have lost on the A3. If I had to finance the extra £4700 at 5% over 3 years that would cost probably £700 in interest. It all adds up.

 

[Max Damage]

Company car so no issue with repairs. However when you are taking on average 90mins to do 25 miles the stop start is saving me fuel. Like most things I guess it all comes down to what your regular journey is like

 

[weirdkerr]

the Audi is over priced... I priced up an equivalent spec to my 1.2 TSI SE and it came to over 20,00 where the Leon new is 17,500 ( I paid 13,000 for a 6 month old car with 14k on the clock)