2016 2.0 TDI FR heater help.

[Silleyobt]

Hi all,

can anyone point me in the right direction for help with my mk3 FR 2.0 TDI.
Heat went about a year ago on drivers side of climate control. I left it as I had heat from passenger side but thats now gone. So no heat at all. Car gets up to temperature as it should. Can’t seem to see a silicon ball bag in the coolant house either so not thinking my model has that as it’s been mentioned before. So not really sure.
Faulty flap in the heater matrix? Best to change that out?

cheers in advantage

 

[sxi20vt]

If you’ve got no heat inside the car it’s probably a blocked heater matrix common fault Needs flushing new matrix and coolant bottle then pressure filling with coolant

 

[SuperV8]

Can perform a flap calibration first but as mentioned likely to be your heater matrix.
Common problem on MQB platform cars to block the heater matrix - which can also expel coolant out your header tank following a DPF regen. The EGR cooler is on the same micro coolant circuit as the heater matrix, and so the restricted micro circuit allows local boiling/expelling coolant.
Heater matrix can be changed from the glove box side - no need to remove the dash as I have seen some garages doing!
Flush cooling system before fitting new matrix,
Fit new heater matrix,
Vacuum fill.

 

[Wayne.mead]

Hi all,

can anyone point me in the right direction for help with my mk3 FR 2.0 TDI.
Heat went about a year ago on drivers side of climate control. I left it as I had heat from passenger side but thats now gone. So no heat at all. Car gets up to temperature as it should. Can’t seem to see a silicon ball bag in the coolant house either so not thinking my model has that as it’s been mentioned before. So not really sure.
Faulty flap in the heater matrix? Best to change that out?

cheers in advantage

Had exactly the same,I changed the heater matrix myself ,quite easy ,all comes out of the passenger side footwell,I got the better Nissens matrix from amozon,about £80 pounds if I remember it right.your Water bottle will have it written on the side if it has a silicon bag in it,it will say sillicone/or something similar,I will check later what letters it was,this site has loads of tips .certainly a diy job

 

[RUM4MO]

Mit Silikat is what is printed on the shoulder of tanks with pouches. (or Silikate, I've forgotten).

 

[Silleyobt]

Had exactly the same,I changed the heater matrix myself ,quite easy ,all comes out of the passenger side footwell,I got the better Nissens matrix from amozon,about £80 pounds if I remember it right.your Water bottle will have it written on the side if it has a silicon bag in it,it will say sillicone/or something similar,I will check later what letters it was,this site has loads of tips .certainly a diy job

this little pain here? Means I do have the silicon bag of balls. Pain in the arse time then.

 

[BillyCool]

View attachment 35247

this little pain here? Means I do have the silicon bag of balls. Pain in the arse time then.

Welcome to the Heater Matrix Club.

You can get a matrix for about £90 and change it in under 2 hours of you're okay doing it yourself. About £25 to £35 for a new header tank `sans bag` and a coolant refil. You are meant to do a full system bleed etc but that's a specialist thing to get done. If you can drop the rad hose and dump most of your coolant you might be okay. That's what I did and mine has been fine for 3 years (touch wood).

 

[mjj4]

Guaranteed blocked matrix unfortunately. The reason you had heat on the passenger side is because the matrix is that side. As mentioned already it's easy to change with just the glovebox removed. I put a hose through the matrix and used a plastic tray liner bag in the footwell to catch the fresh water from the matrix when disconnecting it inside.

I used the upgraded black matrix from eBay for about £80. No need for a new bottle, if you can't see the bag and it's already split you don't need to replace it. I did mine about 3 years ago and sold it to a mate, still going strong now.

Also, no need to vacuum fill it. Just fill it up and drive it, then top it up after 10 miles.

 

[Silleyobt]

Guaranteed blocked matrix unfortunately. The reason you had heat on the passenger side is because the matrix is that side. As mentioned already it's easy to change with just the glovebox removed. I put a hose through the matrix and used a plastic tray liner bag in the footwell to catch the fresh water from the matrix when disconnecting it inside.

I used the upgraded black matrix from eBay for about £80. No need for a new bottle, if you can't see the bag and it's already split you don't need to replace it. I did mine about 3 years ago and sold it to a mate, still going strong now.

Also, no need to vacuum fill it. Just fill it up and drive it, then top it up after 10 miles.

Wouldn’t happen to have a link to the matrix would you? I wasn’t going to try change the tank. Just wanted to pull the bag out and forget about it.

 

[mjj4]

Wouldn’t happen to have a link to the matrix would you? I wasn’t going to try change the tank. Just wanted to pull the bag out and forget about it.

Unfortunately the tank won't solve your issues, but when I changed my matrix I did find a genuine Hella tank without the bag on somewhere like carparts4less for about £12. I ended up leaving my stock one in as the bag disappeared on mine.

Car Heater Matrixes - The Car Heater Shop

we provide and manufacture quality car heater matrixes for domestic, commercial, plant and agricultural vehicles.

www.motoradsonline.co.uk

This is the company I used, and I think most people have used if they haven't gone OEM. I can't remember if they're sold on eBay or not or the price difference.

Honestly not too bad to change if you can manage removing the glovebox. Removing the heater matrix pipes in the engine bay can be a little tricky, but you can push the heat shield back to get to the clips. Like I said above I put a hose in the heater matrix pipe via the engine bay and flushed all of the coolant out. To be honest you could do this first and see if the heater matrix can be flushed out in both directions with a hosepipe and see if the heat returns. This should be a 30 min job by simply removing the 2 heater matrix connectors at the firewall in the engine bay and hosing through each way.

 

[SuperV8]

Unfortunately the tank won't solve your issues, but when I changed my matrix I did find a genuine Hella tank without the bag on somewhere like carparts4less for about £12. I ended up leaving my stock one in as the bag disappeared on mine.

Car Heater Matrixes - The Car Heater Shop

we provide and manufacture quality car heater matrixes for domestic, commercial, plant and agricultural vehicles.

www.motoradsonline.co.uk

This is the company I used, and I think most people have used if they haven't gone OEM. I can't remember if they're sold on eBay or not or the price difference.

Honestly not too bad to change if you can manage removing the glovebox. Removing the heater matrix pipes in the engine bay can be a little tricky, but you can push the heat shield back to get to the clips. Like I said above I put a hose in the heater matrix pipe via the engine bay and flushed all of the coolant out. To be honest you could do this first and see if the heater matrix can be flushed out in both directions with a hosepipe and see if the heat returns. This should be a 30 min job by simply removing the 2 heater matrix connectors at the firewall in the engine bay and hosing through each way.

For the Valeo heater matrix the OEM number is 5Q0819031B.
I personally used NRF 54342 which is a better price and still decent quality made in Europe.
You do not need to touch pipes in the engine bay. Need a selection of small torx and allen bits.
Remove your battery negative cable.
Working in the passenger side -
Remove under dash trim panel (the panel above where your feet would be)
Remove glovebox
Remove passenger side tunnel trim
Blower motor (hidden screw at the back)
Heater matrix plastic trim panel
Undo both heater matrix clamps - have a plastic tub handy to catch only the small amount of coolant - something like <300ml Have some scrap towles underneath to catch any spillage.

 

[BillyCool]

Wouldn’t happen to have a link to the matrix would you? I wasn’t going to try change the tank. Just wanted to pull the bag out and forget about it.

I got mine from here as a like for like swap for my Valeo one:

https://www.buycarparts.co.uk/search?keyword=715303&maker_id=104&model_id=11484&car_id=23695&kbaStr%5B0%5D=YE14WMM

That newer/improved one listed previously looks pretty good - just make sure you know what you currently have as it won't work if you have a Denso matrix fitted.

 

[mjj4]

For the Valeo heater matrix the OEM number is 5Q0819031B.
I personally used NRF 54342 which is a better price and still decent quality made in Europe.
You do not need to touch pipes in the engine bay. Need a selection of small torx and allen bits.
Remove your battery negative cable.
Working in the passenger side -
Remove under dash trim panel (the panel above where your feet would be)
Remove glovebox
Remove passenger side tunnel trim
Blower motor (hidden screw at the back)
Heater matrix plastic trim panel
Undo both heater matrix clamps - have a plastic tub handy to catch only the small amount of coolant - something like <300ml Have some scrap towles underneath to catch any spillage.

I think the OEM or NEF are more susceptible to blocking up again if you haven't flushed the whole system through and removed all the silica or casting sand. The one I linked to has larger cooling channels so is less sensitive.

And yes you are correct that you don't need to remove the heater matrix pipes from the bulkhead, but for the extra 10 minutes I would say it's well worth it to not have any antifreeze spill into your carpet.

 

[Silleyobt]

Top class on the help guys. Thank you. Will finally tackle Sunday and fingers crossed solve the issue.

 

[BigJase88]

Be aware it will probably block again and require multiple flushes

Great design

 

[Marlowe]

Sorry to add to this but wanted to just sense check the same issues we're having in our 2013 2.0 TDI FR Leon. (CUPA engine).

Had the same issues as everyone - DPF regen causes overheating of coolant it seems and blow out via expansion tank. Appreciate all the signs point to a heater matrix block but the usual solutions haven't fixed:

-Replaced heater matrix & flushed twice.
-Replaced expansion tank (the usual deal with silicon bag - no sign of the breaking but I know it can leak steadily which may be the cause of a block?)
-Replaced EGR Cooler

Unfortunately all of the above didn't fix. Trusted mechnic argues its head gasket, but sniff test came back clear and I've narrowed it down using the VagDPF app to be only when DPF regens happen that the overheat happs - we can do the same journey without issue if the automatic DPF regen is temporarily coded out.

At the same time as this we've also got a potentially seperate (longstanding issue) with a hesitation with ignition turnover from cold - a huge delay in turning over. I wasn't sure if this is potentially due to an EGR valve fault but the full cooler has been replaced so probably unrelated. We have also replaced the battery to address this without success and the alternator is fine.

In my head this now reads like the logical conclusion is the replacement heater matrix (another genuine matrix) is still blocked (presumably with crap / silicone that hadn't flushed through from the system properly when the matrix was replaced) so I'm running a flush through and preparing that I maybe need to rip out the new matrix (and potentially replace with the NISSEN matrix which I understand has a wider diameter and doesn't block as easily). I wanted to check if there' s anything else obvious i'm missing though - should I be looking at any sensors / thermostat?

Thanks

Dan

 

[SuperV8]

Sorry to add to this but wanted to just sense check the same issues we're having in our 2013 2.0 TDI FR Leon. (CUPA engine).

Had the same issues as everyone - DPF regen causes overheating of coolant it seems and blow out via expansion tank. Appreciate all the signs point to a heater matrix block but the usual solutions haven't fixed:

-Replaced heater matrix & flushed twice.
-Replaced expansion tank (the usual deal with silicon bag - no sign of the breaking but I know it can leak steadily which may be the cause of a block?)
-Replaced EGR Cooler

Unfortunately all of the above didn't fix. Trusted mechnic argues its head gasket, but sniff test came back clear and I've narrowed it down using the VagDPF app to be only when DPF regens happen that the overheat happs - we can do the same journey without issue if the automatic DPF regen is temporarily coded out.

At the same time as this we've also got a potentially seperate (longstanding issue) with a hesitation with ignition turnover from cold - a huge delay in turning over. I wasn't sure if this is potentially due to an EGR valve fault but the full cooler has been replaced so probably unrelated. We have also replaced the battery to address this without success and the alternator is fine.

In my head this now reads like the logical conclusion is the replacement heater matrix (another genuine matrix) is still blocked (presumably with crap / silicone that hadn't flushed through from the system properly when the matrix was replaced) so I'm running a flush through and preparing that I maybe need to rip out the new matrix (and potentially replace with the NISSEN matrix which I understand has a wider diameter and doesn't block as easily). I wanted to check if there' s anything else obvious i'm missing though - should I be looking at any sensors / thermostat?

Thanks

Dan

I found my expansion tank cap pressure relief was too low - simple to test - block off ports to the tank and connect up a bicycle pump with gauge.

 

[RUM4MO]

I even found a kit cheaply on ebay, it does work and includes an adaptor for current VW Group cars.
I should put it use on my older daughter's partners 1998 Lotus Esprit GT3. his "Lotus approved" workshop have changed his car over from "blue" coolant to red/pink/purple coolant and I'm asking him the question "is this okay for this car", he is finding that difficult to find out or prove, okay Comma still quote their "blue" version, but could be because that coolant was current when that car was built - time will tell - I've only asked the question and need him to find the answer.
Another, but OT issue, that Lotus Esprit GT3 has a plastic coolant header tank and another plastic overflow tank, which seemed strange to me, but it seems that the header tank should remain 100% full at all times, and it should have a double seal "recovery" version of pressure cp, ie a pressure cap that opens at say 16psi and forces the expanded hot coolant out and into the overflow tank which just has a sealed cover on it, and also an overflow pipe, so the pressure in the overflow tank is always at ambient pressure. My next question for him is "is that new cap you bought for this car got a lower AND upper sealing washer AND a vacuum recovery valve on the base of the pressure seating part. Until now I never ever considered that there were two different types of pressure caps, and so far I've not managed to find an online listing of types or model numbers, Serck for instance don't cover pressure caps nowadays!

Edit:- since I bought that cheap coolant pressure tester kit, I've used it to sort of gauge when I've removed as much air as possible from a cooling system, but marking the reservoir with tape and a black marker with the pressure cap off and the cooling system cold, then apply say 15psi or whatever the system is rated for, and make a mark at the new lower level, and then recording it! If/when I replace coolant, if there is still air in a system, the level drop when pressurised will be more while air is still in it.