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I would be interested to see this thing go in real life when its done as its my experience that the only time a big turbo Leon is going to beat a K04 Leon with S2+ in reality is anywhere over 115mph.

That being said, its great to see the boundaries being pushed out and I look forward to seeing the results.
 
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Doubt it. I'd hate to think how much Stage 4 has cost this chap. He seems to be very much an APR loyalist... fair play, usually good stuff but extortionate in almost all cases.

You can't really get past the value cost in my eyes. You can have a full V-Banded (interchangeable turbo) GT3071R setup for a little under £2100 from ATP, when compared to APR's £4350 for a GT2871R setup. Ok so the APR kit comes with a few extras like injectors and a few other bits and bobs, but certainly not £2250 worth (yeh you could have two ATP kits AND HAVE CHANGE for the cost of APR!). You still need to buy a fuel pump, an intercooler and internals separately for both kits.

If I were talking that some of money at that sum of money I'd be looking at a BSH - Work Of Art for sure. Looks awesome!

BTW the differences between APR Stage 3 and Stage 4 are:

Pat ,
before i chose APR i have covered all other options on the market.
your analysis is completly wrong due to 3 points :

  • Hardware -
    on the hardware part of things, there is no real difficulty on making a solid kit. this is not really space engineering.

    there are currently several good HW kits on the market , and BSH looks like one of them (never seen it in person , but looks good). however , the ATP kit isn't one of them and it leaves a lot to be desired.

  • Turbo -
    you , like most people always compare APR's 2871 to the 3071.
    if you look at normal flow maps of both turbos there is a differance , but it doesn't apply in this case.

    APR (i've seen this when i visited them) are building their own 2871's which have high A/R and some modified internals , so it is kind of a hybrid.

    when comparing APR's 2871 to a 3071 maps you will see that the 3071 will be able to flow a max of around 10-15 hp more at high revs , however it will be much more laggy , which is really an important issue when daily driving a car.

  • Software -
    this is the main issue.
    when going on BSH/Euro JET or any other kit avilable , you are basically building on the Unitronic software.

    the UNI software is really generic and does not comply completly with any of the HW kits at the moment. fine tuning is done with MBC which is far from being ideal.

    if you will read some build threads , you will see some really low numbers (around 320whp) with the stock software , and the only guys who achieved anything decent are guys who had direct access to UNI HQ and got a complete custom tune.

    in our cars software is everything , and that is the main reason all other kits sell so little and seen so little on the forums.

    and as a side note, talking about our ED30/Cupra/S3 - UNI has no BT software AFAIK that accomedates the lower CR and different cams.


as for other questions on the post , i will give more info in the next hour or so.
 
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As far as all questions, I will post as things happen, there are tons of parts involved and I will post all as they go on the car.

As for time table, you should see this build end Late OCT.

So let's start with the engine components.

Basically, the stage 4 kit is a hybrid of the Stage 3 BT kit and a completely built engine.
it is not a "KIT" and it is done on a case to case basis and it is not identical between builds.

The basis for the engine mods are APR motorsport engines and their experience with different changes at the track, modified to accommodate the larger turbo in this kit.

AFAIK I am only the third client that APR is building the stage 4 for and I have also requested some changes from previous builds.

So let's go over the main component, I'm doing this from my knowledge and might miss some points, I am sure APR will be glad to clarify if I did.

• Basic Stage 3 Kit -

the base for this entire build is the standard stage 3 kit . in terms of turbo and surrounding accessories there is no change at all , the difference lies in the built engine and custom software
20ts3_265hp_full_kit.jpg


• Ported and blueprinted head -

both the head and the block are being X-rayed and scanned for any defects.
the head then is blueprinted and go through a 5 way porting process according to CAD files that are based on the motorsport engines.

I don't have exact flow numbers and not sure if APR are willing to share but there is a massive increase in flow through both intake and exhaust ports.

pics will be available later on.

• Ferrera Valve Train -

This is new and has not been done to in previous builds and is being done according to my request , just for the extra strength .

this is a complete kit and should hold much higher revs than the stock valves. Although our engines are limited by other factors such as the HPFP.
Ferrera1jpg.jpg


ferrera2.jpg


• Schrick Camshafts -

Those camshafts were discussed a lot in the forums but rarely used since there is no software on the market apart from APR stage 4 that makes use of the higher lift and duration.

those are a pain to get hold of since they were of limited production and didn't sell well and so not massively produced.

cams1.jpg


cams3.jpg


cams2.jpg


• Dynamically balanced Crank -

The crank is being dynamically balanced (while rolling at high RPM) with the entire moving mass of the engine.

This also includes the clutch Flywheel which is also being modded to fit the rest of the engine's moving mass.

• EGR Delete -

The EGR is one of the largest points of flow interruption and failure in highly tuned FSI's and therefore it is being completely shaven off of the car and the software is being adapted to run without the EGR.

• Rods and Pistons -

the block is being bored slightly to 83mm and a set of JE pistons with IE rods is being installed.

Compression ratio is dropped only slightly (compared to my stock 9.8:1) to 9.5:1

Rods1.jpg


rods2.jpg


piston-2.jpg


piston.jpg



Those are the main things happening in the engine build. There are of-course tons of other misc items around those main parts.

current status is that the engine is already built and I am waiting for some pics to post from Arin@APR (btw : thanks for the amazing pics so far) , which will probably happen once H2O is finished.
 
I'm pretty sure Ferrera valve train kit has been used before on a 2.0TFSI build. Didn't JonnyC use them on his Ed30GTI or S3?
 
Ferrera has been used quite a lot, both the standard and 1mm oversized versions.

however , they are only usefull if you have the faulty lifters (some early cupra) or if you have really high HP.

stock valves are known to have no problem to go to 7,500RPM (in a cupra).

above that you get into another problem of hitting the HPFP float point.
 
Ferrera has been used quite a lot, both the standard and 1mm oversized versions.

however , they are only usefull if you have the faulty lifters (some early cupra) or if you have really high HP.

stock valves are known to have no problem to go to 7,500RPM (in a cupra).

above that you get into another problem of hitting the HPFP float point.

That's reassuring! :)
What rpm are you planning on increasing to?
 
7800 RPM are my high limit due to float point on the HPFP.

however i am not really sure i will need that kind of RPM.

i will work exact RPM's after i will have a powerband and could work out exact shift points for each gear. that in turn will give me my goal RPM or gear mods i will need.
 
I was just thinking that actually, what will the power band be? Arin suggests 3000rpm to redline which is pretty crazy... Where is peak torque and horsepower on the other stage 4 cars?
 
I was just thinking that actually, what will the power band be? Arin suggests 3000rpm to redline which is pretty crazy... Where is peak torque and horsepower on the other stage 4 cars?

There are several dynos which APR published, don't know how relevant they are to me since they are running 93 and 100 octane and i am making tunes for pure 98 and 98+little W/M

Power band should start at around 3200-3400 RPM and go all the way to the redline , which makes for extremly beefy powerband.

another advantage of the 2871 compared to the k04 is that it is less torquy and the torque comes up higher in the powerband , which is a real good thing with a FWD car unless you want to spin all the way to 5th gear.
 
Yeh looked at those dyno graphs after I posted.
Those SAE corrected figures are a bit of a joke...
Still the uncorrected numbers are pretty impressive - around 440hp on shell v-power!
I can't wait to see a proper independent dyno graph :)
 
Good luck with this mate, hope it goes well. My car's been a bit of a dog with the Stage 3 kit on, and APR havent exactly been helpful recently... Its difficult not being in the states you see!

Looking from the graphs they have produced, it seems like a real 3071 beater.