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Audi S3 GT3582R stroker Build (previously GT3071r)
- Thread starter tufftybloke
- Start date
Got a max of 315bhp today, AFR was all over the place... I don't have the logs or the printout to hand but was mid/high 0.9's then went to 0.6 odd requested with 0.75 recorded. (IIRC)
<tuffty/>
<tuffty/>
oh the joys of going big turbo!at least you have the ability to do all the work yourself,hope you get it sorted
some mechanical checks and pipe checks do be done, as its been plagued with silly pipes popping off, splitting etc, so once confirmed ok, the mapping can resume with its latest hardware (free flowing exhaust for example)
daily driver for paul, so its a when we get time to look at it kinda job.
logs were taken from the runs which are handy to confirm against map in the car currently, anf adjust accordingly.
more to come.
daily driver for paul, so its a when we get time to look at it kinda job.
logs were taken from the runs which are handy to confirm against map in the car currently, anf adjust accordingly.
more to come.
Did a quick pipe check today, all seem good. Also did a charge system leak test and held 30psi no probs.
Bill looked through the logs and the fuel dump does indeed look temperature related. Prob never noticed it before because as Bill says, its my daily driver and I don't really drive her hard... the dyno has proved useful though as the logs appear to show that the fuel dump didn't happen during some of the initial calibration and warm up runs (where power wasn't being logged) but by the time the actual runs occurred, the EGTs were already up and the ECU was having a moan hence the dumping of fuel.
The dyno is probably the hardest she has been run over a short period of time. Also looks like the actuator has relaxed a bit as the boost is holding at 1.4bar which is actually what the map is requesting which again explains the low figures.
Next steps are to look at repositioning the EGT probe, tweaking the fuelling and upping the boost.
...when either of us can find 5 mins to do that of course
<tuffty/>
Bill looked through the logs and the fuel dump does indeed look temperature related. Prob never noticed it before because as Bill says, its my daily driver and I don't really drive her hard... the dyno has proved useful though as the logs appear to show that the fuel dump didn't happen during some of the initial calibration and warm up runs (where power wasn't being logged) but by the time the actual runs occurred, the EGTs were already up and the ECU was having a moan hence the dumping of fuel.
The dyno is probably the hardest she has been run over a short period of time. Also looks like the actuator has relaxed a bit as the boost is holding at 1.4bar which is actually what the map is requesting which again explains the low figures.
Next steps are to look at repositioning the EGT probe, tweaking the fuelling and upping the boost.
...when either of us can find 5 mins to do that of course
<tuffty/>
You say reposistion the EGT probe, is there not a way you could adjust the values in the ecu so that it didnt complain because of the higher temperatures due to the placement it is in now? Or maybe even some form of simple resistor maybe to just drop the values it show to the ecu?Did a quick pipe check today, all seem good. Also did a charge system leak test and held 30psi no probs.
Bill looked through the logs and the fuel dump does indeed look temperature related. Prob never noticed it before because as Bill says, its my daily driver and I don't really drive her hard... the dyno has proved useful though as the logs appear to show that the fuel dump didn't happen during some of the initial calibration and warm up runs (where power wasn't being logged) but by the time the actual runs occurred, the EGTs were already up and the ECU was having a moan hence the dumping of fuel.
The dyno is probably the hardest she has been run over a short period of time. Also looks like the actuator has relaxed a bit as the boost is holding at 1.4bar which is actually what the map is requesting which again explains the low figures.
Next steps are to look at repositioning the EGT probe, tweaking the fuelling and upping the boost.
...when either of us can find 5 mins to do that of course
<tuffty/>
its sat currently in the port outlet immediately outside of ports 2/3
further downstream will be more like OE position.. heinsight and all that.
ecu has already been adjusted to move up the limit, its the location which is wrong, so making something else wrong to compensate for it is not a solution acceptable to me
Awesome build thread Paul - it's been interesting for me to see the progress as and when I've dropped mine off for Bill to work some more of his magic Love how you've kept it a sleeper too!
Sounds like there was a lot of disappointment from the RR day, though as people have said - perhaps it's a wake up call for some to come to terms with realistic numbers rather than happy dynos that serve little purpose other than giving owners a pretty piece of paper they can use to brag with down the pub.
You guys sound busy busy at the moment! Hope you manage to get the fuelling sorted soon, stick with it
Love how you've kept it a sleeper too!Sounds like there was a lot of disappointment from the RR day, though as people have said - perhaps it's a wake up call for some to come to terms with realistic numbers rather than happy dynos that serve little purpose other than giving owners a pretty piece of paper they can use to brag with down the pub.
You guys sound busy busy at the moment! Hope you manage to get the fuelling sorted soon, stick with it
Awesome build thread Paul - it's been interesting for me to see the progress as and when I've dropped mine off for Bill to work some more of his magic
Sounds like there was a lot of disappointment from the RR day, though as people have said - perhaps it's a wake up call for some to come to terms with realistic numbers rather than happy dynos that serve little purpose other than giving owners a pretty piece of paper they can use to brag with down the pub.
You guys sound busy busy at the moment! Hope you manage to get the fuelling sorted soon, stick with it
Thanks mate... initial disappointment is now gone tbh... all I can think about is the positives gained from running on the dyno... we knew the mapping would be out but the EGT/fuel dump issue was the surprise...
Gives me an excuse to keep tinkering with the car and improving on things as I go... all a learning curve and only benefits in the long run...
Other than the odd hiccup, the build has gone really well and I know the potential is there. Couple more tweaks and it will come right...
The stage 1 S3's guys were a little down hearted and its made for an interesting debate but the std cars made near as damn it std power and the Polo Bill is building made a very nice figure so take what you will from that....
All relative at the end of the day as all the stage 1 cars produced pretty much the same power... Once I have sorted the teething probs out, the DD dyno will give me a base figure to work from and something I can compare any future mods too...
<tuffty/>
hiy m8 is this the turbo you have been using? http://www.owendevelopments.co.uk/products/product-detail.asp?prodId=18&catId=-1&subId=-1. im wondering where you got your actuator bracket on the first page on your thread as i have the turbo above and finding it quite difficult to get a bracket for it to fit.
Similar, mine has a GT28 comp housing and a 3" inlet...
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-025&Category_Code=GRT
The bracket came with the turbo but was modified (as was the comp housing) to suit the orientation of the comp housing. We had to tweak it a bit and made a neater job of it as it wasn't the best tbh...
Drop Bill a pm, I am sure he will be able to advise you.
<tuffty/>
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-025&Category_Code=GRT
The bracket came with the turbo but was modified (as was the comp housing) to suit the orientation of the comp housing. We had to tweak it a bit and made a neater job of it as it wasn't the best tbh...
Drop Bill a pm, I am sure he will be able to advise you.
<tuffty/>
Hi, and good luck with the project. I have the same AMK engine on my S3.
I was wondering...what EGT are you talking about? I have the same liquid display...so we can talk the "same language".
I have a custom exhaust, without middle silencer, only a 100 cells cat and a small final silencer. 2'75 inches from the cat to the end.
when raced, i see as much as 950 degrees CELSIUS...but usually between 500 to 750...CELSIUS. is it OK?
thank you very much for you reply.
Hummm... assuming you are still running a K04 turbo then mine aren't that far away from yours. Before I got my exhaust I managed to trip an EGT limit exceeded fault code (1100 degrees!!) and was regularly seeing over 1000 degrees but now the max I get is around 965 degrees which would suggest the EGT probe is ok position wise but this doesn't mean the ECU isn't going to throw a wobbler and dump fuel even when the EGT's are at an acceptable temp...
Might have to try my Liquid gauge on a mates S3 that has a CC stage 1 and see what his EGT's are like...
500 to 750 degrees seems fine to me, mine are similar or maybe a little lower tbh but my setup is quite different to yours.
I have a new map to try now so will see how that goes..
<tuffty/>
hmm...thanks for the answer. yeap, still K04 here
when in traffic i never read the EGT. but on the road..it ranges from 600-700 to 950..depending on the size of my foot) and on the number of curves on the road.
also, perhaps after a couple of readings, you can post here also the intake temperature (mine is around 5-6 degrees higher than the outside temperature when cruising-thanks to a pretty big FMIC from forge, and rises up to 15-20 higher when raced, to a maximum of 50-60-70 degrees during the summer, when raced, when the outside temperature can reach 35-37 degrees celsius), and the oil temperature (mine is around 90 when crusing and up to 115 maximum when raced).
Also, I am pretty interested in the torque and power figures showed on your display compared to the dyno ones. because I was not able to go to a dyno...
I hope I am not exaggerating with the requests but I know only a few S3s with the racing display.
looking forward to any replies
when in traffic i never read the EGT. but on the road..it ranges from 600-700 to 950..depending on the size of my foot
) and on the number of curves on the road. also, perhaps after a couple of readings, you can post here also the intake temperature (mine is around 5-6 degrees higher than the outside temperature when cruising-thanks to a pretty big FMIC from forge, and rises up to 15-20 higher when raced, to a maximum of 50-60-70 degrees during the summer, when raced, when the outside temperature can reach 35-37 degrees celsius), and the oil temperature (mine is around 90 when crusing and up to 115 maximum when raced).
Also, I am pretty interested in the torque and power figures showed on your display compared to the dyno ones. because I was not able to go to a dyno...
I hope I am not exaggerating with the requests
but I know only a few S3s with the racing display. looking forward to any replies
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All remaped 210 / 225bhp 1.8t's will shows egt's of around 950 degree's when red lineing them, unless they have been mapped very rich. A big reason for this is that the stock k04 manifold is very restrictive and cannot allow the gases to escape quick enough to keep the manifold temperatures down. The bosch ecu uses the injectors to reduce duty cycle and run less power if the temp recorded by the egt probe reaches 1050 degrees.
JBS and INA will hopefully release high flow versions of these manifolds earlier this year (hopefully) which should improve these issues for us.
JBS and INA will hopefully release high flow versions of these manifolds earlier this year (hopefully) which should improve these issues for us.
Bit of an update...
Still trying to sort the exhaust out as I am not happy with the drone in the car. Fitted a sports CAT now and the noise is much better inside and out but still has a bit of a drone thats really annoying so a bit more work to do there....
Had a few cold start issues and boost seems a little all over the place so set about a mission to check for leaks. I have already tested the boost side of things at over 30psi and no leaks so was happy about that but had a good look over the vacuum system.
All the visible pipes looked fine so looked at the less obvious ones. Removed the funny 'V' shaped pipe at the end of the inlet mani that feeds the PCV system and servo..
Brilliant!!!
So based on that I looked at all the pipework under the inlet mani and found splits in the plastic hard tubing and another rubber 'L' shaped pipe that comes from the bottom of the mani to the air pump valve...
I ended up removing most of this and re-plumbed what was left.... servo is now directly connected to the inlet mani where the funny 'V' shaped pipe was (using an appropriate one way valve) and replaced the pipe coming from the bottom of the mani to the air pump valve.
I plan to tidy this up and remove whatever is not needed when I have a bit more time. Here is what I ended up removing...
Off the back of this the engine will sit happily at 1.6bar and feels much smoother under acceleration... result!!! Bloody VAG and is EU/emissions pipework nonsense!!!
Seeing as I was on a roll, I tried a manual boost controller to see if could get the boost back up to 1.8bar or so... a quick run later showed the boost peaking at nearly 2bar but settling back to 1.6bar with the MBC wound fully open... something wasn't right...
Bill then suggested adjusting the preload of the actuator... My actuator has gone a bit softer since it was fitted which is not a major problem but Bill felt that the wastgate may well be being blown open due to exhaust pressure and because I have a relatively small hotside.... its got to go somewhere!!!
I removed the actuator and adjusted the arm a tad... put it back on and it hit 1.8bar and held...
Getting somewhere at last, EGT's seem to be happy at 950 degrees on full chat and the car feels much stronger through the gears.
Next tweak on the cards is to change my 007P DV to this...
This is the same DV Bill runs on his car, it has 40mm inlet/outlet ports versus the 25mm ones of the 007P so hoping this will dump my 1.8bar of boost a little better
In the meantime I will be doing some logging runs so that I can get the mapping finished, hoping that I have finally got rid of my gremlins this time as its been a right old run around chasing our tails with all sorts of issues mostly vacuum related...
If I have learned anything from this its that you can never underestimate how crap the VAG vacuum pipe system is and that it should be one of the first places you look if you think you have any performance/running probs with your car...
Here endeth the lesson ;P
<tuffty/>
Still trying to sort the exhaust out as I am not happy with the drone in the car. Fitted a sports CAT now and the noise is much better inside and out but still has a bit of a drone thats really annoying so a bit more work to do there....
Had a few cold start issues and boost seems a little all over the place so set about a mission to check for leaks. I have already tested the boost side of things at over 30psi and no leaks so was happy about that but had a good look over the vacuum system.
All the visible pipes looked fine so looked at the less obvious ones. Removed the funny 'V' shaped pipe at the end of the inlet mani that feeds the PCV system and servo..
Brilliant!!!
So based on that I looked at all the pipework under the inlet mani and found splits in the plastic hard tubing and another rubber 'L' shaped pipe that comes from the bottom of the mani to the air pump valve...
I ended up removing most of this and re-plumbed what was left.... servo is now directly connected to the inlet mani where the funny 'V' shaped pipe was (using an appropriate one way valve) and replaced the pipe coming from the bottom of the mani to the air pump valve.
I plan to tidy this up and remove whatever is not needed when I have a bit more time. Here is what I ended up removing...
Off the back of this the engine will sit happily at 1.6bar and feels much smoother under acceleration... result!!! Bloody VAG and is EU/emissions pipework nonsense!!!
Seeing as I was on a roll, I tried a manual boost controller to see if could get the boost back up to 1.8bar or so... a quick run later showed the boost peaking at nearly 2bar but settling back to 1.6bar with the MBC wound fully open... something wasn't right...
Bill then suggested adjusting the preload of the actuator... My actuator has gone a bit softer since it was fitted which is not a major problem but Bill felt that the wastgate may well be being blown open due to exhaust pressure and because I have a relatively small hotside.... its got to go somewhere!!!
I removed the actuator and adjusted the arm a tad... put it back on and it hit 1.8bar and held...
Getting somewhere at last, EGT's seem to be happy at 950 degrees on full chat and the car feels much stronger through the gears.
Next tweak on the cards is to change my 007P DV to this...
This is the same DV Bill runs on his car, it has 40mm inlet/outlet ports versus the 25mm ones of the 007P so hoping this will dump my 1.8bar of boost a little better
In the meantime I will be doing some logging runs so that I can get the mapping finished, hoping that I have finally got rid of my gremlins this time as its been a right old run around chasing our tails with all sorts of issues mostly vacuum related...
If I have learned anything from this its that you can never underestimate how crap the VAG vacuum pipe system is and that it should be one of the first places you look if you think you have any performance/running probs with your car...
Here endeth the lesson ;P
<tuffty/>
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