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Auto handbrake or not - Leon Cupra

Peller

2018 Cupra 290 without the copper bits
Mar 29, 2016
489
143
Edinburgh
So you just assume this? You didn't read it in the handbook or were told it by a dealer or anything, you invented the idea yourself?

You really haven't thought this through at all. If a driver parked on a hill, engaged the electric handbrake and the car rolled because the brake was not on tightly enough, who would be responsible?

That brake comes on full strength, every time.
Mr Pig, I am going on personal experience. I'm sorry to get on your nerves as you seem to be the top Seat Tech here now. No need to be constantly negative on posts. Let people have there views and experiences shared without jumping in and trying to shoot them down.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 
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Mr Pig

Active Member
Jun 17, 2015
1,587
461
Mr Pig, I am going on personal experience. I'm sorry to get on your nerves...
You're not getting on my nerves but if you decide to tell people how their brakes work it's good if actually know instead of just making stuff up. If you can pull up a document or instructions that say the brake works the way you said it does then great, I'm happy to apologize but posting misinformation isn't helping anyone.
 

Peller

2018 Cupra 290 without the copper bits
Mar 29, 2016
489
143
Edinburgh
You're not getting on my nerves but if you decide to tell people how their brakes work it's good if actually know instead of just making stuff up. If you can pull up a document or instructions that say the brake works the way you said it does then great, I'm happy to apologize but posting misinformation isn't helping anyone.
Do you have electronic handbrake?

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 

Peller

2018 Cupra 290 without the copper bits
Mar 29, 2016
489
143
Edinburgh
You're not getting on my nerves but if you decide to tell people how their brakes work it's good if actually know instead of just making stuff up. If you can pull up a document or instructions that say the brake works the way you said it does then great, I'm happy to apologize but posting misinformation isn't helping anyone.
Do you have the handbrake in question? If you do you would know what I'm on about. It's certainly not false information.

I'm sure that many other owners of a DSG Leon as mine would agree that this happens. I'm not sure if it's an official feature as I've got better things to do rather than read 400 odd pages of safety briefings.

The fact of the matter is that if you hold the brake pedal firmly the engage the switch you feel the brake pedal depress deeper than normal. Maybe it's electronic wizardry but I feel it secures the car more.

The reason is (done many times) that the brakes clunk when setting off after the afore mentioned sequence, hence why on a flat surface I just flick the switch and never had a binding clunk.

Furthermore I'm visiting my dealer with a very friendly and knowledgeable tech and I will ask him then post so I'm not in any way putting out false info.

In the meantime, I'll get back to my life...

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 
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Damo H

Carbon Snob
Staff member
Moderator
Oct 3, 2012
3,974
2,350
Car Length In Front
You really haven't thought this through at all. If a driver parked on a hill, engaged the electric handbrake and the car rolled because the brake was not on tightly enough, who would be responsible?
When you’re on the hill you’ve already had to apply the brakes hard enough to stop it rolling down the hill. :rolleyes:

I’m not saying @Peller is right, but I have 2 places I can park at home. When I’m parked on the slope I notice the brake pedal does drop when the handbrake goes on. Can’t say I’ve noticed it ever happens when I park on the flat part.

Edit - if anything the pedal dropping should be more noticeable when parking on the flat part if its applying the handbrake on just as hard everytime *think we need a ‘thinking’ emoji*.
 
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Mr Pig

Active Member
Jun 17, 2015
1,587
461
Do you have the handbrake in question? If you do you would know what I'm on about. It's certainly not false information.
Look. I'm not out to get you but this is the use of the brakes we're talking about here and yes, what you are suggesting does seem like false information. Not the part about feeling the pedal move but the idea that full braking is not applied unless you do that. Push harder on the pedal.

If that were the case, don't you think that maybe Seat would mention it? I'm sitting here with the handbook for our 2017 car and it says nothing about it. Zero. Do you really think they're going to build this braking feature into their cars then not tell anyone? leave it for some guy on an internet forum to figure out?? Just let people drive their car around without being able to fully apply their handbrakes until they join a Seat forum and talk to you?

Of course you will feel the pedal sink if you press it while you apply the brake. The pedal is linked via pressurized oil to the back of the pistons in the calipers, so when the handbrake winds those pistons in the foot pedal can follow it. Doesn't have to but but the harder you press the pedal the more it will and the more you'll feel it. What kind of gearbox your car has is totally irrelevant as the braking system is a completely separate system. How the ECU manages the parts of the brake system it has control over might vary a bit but the braking system itself has nothing to do with the gearbox.

Like I said, if you can show me a document from Seat which backs up what you're saying them great, happy days? Some kid in Quick Fit saying he can feel the pedal sink too isn't going to cut it though.
 

JackB

Active Member
Jan 18, 2020
97
56
Lets settle this argument once and for all... my instinct from using the car was in the camp of "it applies enough pressure" rather than "it cranks the brakes up to 100% every time" but i knew another anecdote wouldnt satisfy you @Mr Pig so I did a quick google.

To quote Seat:

  • "HHC (Hill Hold Control) makes moving off on hills an easy matter. As a subfunction of the ESP, the hill hold control records and stores the brake pressure, holds the car stationary on the slope and enables moving off without using the hand brake. Rolling backwards is prevented for about two seconds after the brake has been released.
  • "The Auto Hold function is an extension of the electric parking brake and offers you more convenience and extra safety. Operated via the ABS/ESC hydraulic unit, it stops your car from rolling away accidentally when standing still or setting off. When you brake your car to a standstill position, Auto Hold retains the last-applied braking pressure. You can take your foot off the brake, and all four-wheel brakes will stay on. If the ABS wheel speed sensors detect any rolling, braking force is automatically increased until the car comes to a standstill again. As soon as you press the accelerator and, in the case of manual gearboxes, release the clutch, Auto Hold reduces the braking pressure."

 
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Damo H

Carbon Snob
Staff member
Moderator
Oct 3, 2012
3,974
2,350
Car Length In Front
Lets settle this argument once and for all... my instinct from using the car was in the camp of "it applies enough pressure" rather than "it cranks the brakes up to 100% every time" but i knew another anecdote wouldnt satisfy you @Mr Pig so I did a quick google.

To quote Seat:

  • "HHC (Hill Hold Control) makes moving off on hills an easy matter. As a subfunction of the ESP, the hill hold control records and stores the brake pressure, holds the car stationary on the slope and enables moving off without using the hand brake. Rolling backwards is prevented for about two seconds after the brake has been released.

  • "The Auto Hold function is an extension of the electric parking brake and offers you more convenience and extra safety. Operated via the ABS/ESC hydraulic unit, it stops your car from rolling away accidentally when standing still or setting off. When you brake your car to a standstill position, Auto Hold retains the last-applied braking pressure. You can take your foot off the brake, and all four-wheel brakes will stay on. If the ABS wheel speed sensors detect any rolling, braking force is automatically increased until the car comes to a standstill again. As soon as you press the accelerator and, in the case of manual gearboxes, release the clutch, Auto Hold reduces the braking pressure."

Sadly that’s all about the auto hold. Not the electronic brake. So not convinced @Mr Pig will accept it.

However I would fully expect the electronic handbrake to work in the same way. As you say, I’m pretty sure the ebrake doesn’t just crank up the handbrake to 100% based on my experience on my drive.
 

Mr Pig

Active Member
Jun 17, 2015
1,587
461
Lets settle this argument once and for all...
We're not talking about hill-hold here. We're talking about the application of the electric handbrake, which is almost the opposite of hill-hold.
 

JackB

Active Member
Jan 18, 2020
97
56
OK, I'll revert back to anecdote then.

As an owner of a car with this handbrake, I feel that it applies just enough pressure for the situation when parking and does not crank up to maximum all the time.

I also do not believe that seat, with access to the technology for other functions already, would want the electronic parking brake cranking the pressure up to max, when they know 50% will hold the car. Its just unnecessary wear and increasing the chances of total failure.

It might apply a bit more pressure for safety when parking vs auto hold, but I highly doubt its just turning itself up to maximum.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 
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Mr Pig

Active Member
Jun 17, 2015
1,587
461
I’m pretty sure the ebrake doesn’t just crank up the handbrake to 100% based on my experience on my drive.
What you feel under the pedal is not necessarily relevant. It doesn't tell you how hard the brake has been applied. No information available to you does unfortunately.

If you park on a hill you might feel the pedal move more because you're probably pressing the pedal more than you would in your level drive. You could test that. Press the pedal very hard while sitting on your drive and see if you get a similar feeling from it as you do when parking on a hill?

It's also possible the car has a sensor that tells it when it's at an angle and it applies the brake harder but I'm reaching here. That's very unlikely for a number of reasons and again, manufacturers love to tell us about all of the clever features they've come up with so I'm fairly confident that if the car could do that the book would mention it.
 

BigJase88

Jase
Apr 20, 2008
2,464
436
Dumfries & Galloway
I think folks are getting confused

If you tap the brake it applies hill hold (which you can also apply on the flat - it’s not just for hills)

And if you sink the pedal harder it applies the handbrake. This is evident when you go to take off again, if you apply the brake hard then it’s harder to take off again, a light tap and its easier to take off in stop go traffic situations.
 

Mr Pig

Active Member
Jun 17, 2015
1,587
461
As an owner of a car with this handbrake, I feel that it applies just enough pressure for the situation when parking and does not crank up to maximum all the time.
Sorry, but all this is pure speculation.

While we're at this, here is another disadvantage. If your battery goes flat, it is impossible to release your electric hand brake. So one problem has just become two. Say for instance your car is parked nose into a parking space at work or in a multi story. Even if you carry jump leads, you can't push the car out into a position where you can get the leads on. A simple fix taking a few minutes has just turned into a bigger problem needing kit you probably don't have and costing you a lot of time.
 

martin j.

Active Member
Feb 11, 2007
1,158
367
Fife
All this discussion prompts me to think that the sales staff need to upgrade the handover technique, if there are varying handbrake applications the buyer should be told at pick up time to ensure the car is left safely. My only experience of electronic handbrakes was with Kia, never was I given instructions before driving away a vehicle, I would stop and flick the switch, sometimes after looking for a handbrake lever though, I always leave the car in gear too, and the front wheels turned. Car is off to dealers for work on Tuesday and if I remember I’ll ask when I’m there.
 

Damo H

Carbon Snob
Staff member
Moderator
Oct 3, 2012
3,974
2,350
Car Length In Front
All this discussion prompts me to think that the sales staff need to upgrade the handover technique, if there are varying handbrake applications the buyer should be told at pick up time to ensure the car is left safely. My only experience of electronic handbrakes was with Kia, never was I given instructions before driving away a vehicle, I would stop and flick the switch, sometimes after looking for a handbrake lever though, I always leave the car in gear too, and the front wheels turned. Car is off to dealers for work on Tuesday and if I remember I’ll ask when I’m there.
I don't honestly think its needed though. The handbrake just does exactly what it needs to do. You park on a hill, you automatically hold the brake pedal hard enough to not roll down the hill yourself before applying the brake.
 
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Yern

Active Member
Apr 25, 2019
305
168
Sorry folks, this is (IMO) getting to be a boring argument now. Way to fix it is put in a handbrake lever and 'hill assist' (not hill hold) - or bring back drum brakes :roflmao:
 
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