Battery charging where there's an electronic sensor

[Seastormer]

I don't use any croc clips as my Optimate is connected to the permanent connecter which is attached directly to the battery leads. The connecter has a plug on end with a protective rubber cap, which the charger lead plugs into in seconds.

 

[RUM4MO]

I don't use any croc clips as my Optimate is connected to the permanent connecter which is attached directly to the battery leads. The connecter has a plug on end with a protective rubber cap, which the charger lead plugs into in seconds.

Same as supplied with CTEK chargers, I think that I discovered that my Audi S4 needed M8 tags and my wife's VW Polo needs an M6 and an M8 tag - not impossible to change the standard supplied M6 tagged leads to what suits, just something that I have never got round to doing, my older daughter's boy friend fitted the supplied M6 leads to her 2019 Leon Cupra by cutting open the +VE tag I noticed today.

 

[Crossthreaded]

Ok. So you guys that are doing a permanent wire in so you can use the plug. Are you wiring that negative wire to the negative battery terminal or to the chassis earth point (domed nut on some)?
Presume all are wiring the positive to the positive battery terminal?

 

[RUM4MO]

If or when I every get round to using a permanent lead, I'll be wiring the +VE to the battery +VE post and the -VE to the body earth bonding point nearest the battery, on all cars with the battery stored in the engine compartment. On cars with the battery stored remotely I'll be connecting the +VE and -VE to the +VE and -VE jumping points.

I'll need to check what the size is for these fixings on both cars first as the default tag size on the lead supplied by CTEK is M6 I think.

 

[Crossthreaded]

If or when I every get round to using a permanent lead, I'll be wiring the +VE to the battery +VE post and the -VE to the body earth bonding point nearest the battery, on all cars with the battery stored in the engine compartment. On cars with the battery stored remotely I'll be connecting the +VE and -VE to the +VE and -VE jumping points.

I'll need to check what the size is for these fixings on both cars first as the default tag size on the lead supplied by CTEK is M6 I think.

Thanks RUM, I'm very happy just connecting with the croc clips. Just wondered what "hard points" you guys recommend. These conversations and the communications I've had with SEAT and CTEK have now settled my mind and I'm feeling very happy about going for the battery pos post and the domed nut chassis earth point if/when I do it. I've been using the car more just lately to help our son cope with the limitations brought about by the - non covid related - illness in his family. Assistance rendered at suitably socially distanced interval. I've been checking the battery and it seems to be behaving well again so the charger is not needed right now. Very glad though that I've investigated this battery monitoring sensor phenomenon as now I know, or think I know, what it's all about! So many thanks to you all who have contributed.
Stay safe all.

 

[Seastormer]

Ok. So you guys that are doing a permanent wire in so you can use the plug. Are you wiring that negative wire to the negative battery terminal or to the chassis earth point (domed nut on some)?
Presume all are wiring the positive to the positive battery terminal?

Connecter is wired to battery posts,

 

[Crossthreaded]

Connecter is wired to battery posts,

Thanks Seastormer. That's helpful to know.
I've had another contact from CTEK's technical people themselves with a lot of additional tech stuff. They say specifically that "CTEK chargers are safe to electronics" They go on to say if you select RECOND it raises the voltage to a max of 15.8 volts (most manufacturers specify that 16 volts max is sustainable apparently) but current is kept very low as it only does this after carrying out a full battery charge. They say to use RECOND only if a battery has been substantially flattened or once a year as a "proactive treatment". From what I gather it promotes "a controlled gassing" at the plates which will cause the electrolyte to move around and so remix the electrolyte. That worries me just slightly with a sealed battery, but I suppose they know what they are doing. I've heard of stratification before as it can happen to a battery if it's left unused for long periods. The acid and water can separate out into layers so becoming less efficient at doing it's job. Unsurprisingly Recond works well on flooded batteries - included EFBs like mine - but won't benefit AGM or Gel types as they have no liquid electrolyte. In fact they say that whilst "Reconding" an AGM battery will not harm it there's no point in doing it but you should NOT do a Recond on a GEL battery as, they say, it can cause the gel to solidify and will ruin the battery. Depending largely on battery size and which model charger you have, The Recond process will last typically between half an hour and 4 hours.

The above is a condensation of a page and a bit of info - well done CTEK - Then right at the end they popped in a wee paragraph to the effect that stratification can cause a battery to perform in a similar way to sulphation and not to confuse them. - Sulphation, of course, is something Lead Acid batteries will nearly all suffer from with age and is a battery killer. Just about the best way to induce it is to not use a battery and not keep it charged. So I was very interested indeed to read the last paragraph of their missive where they say that "every CTEK charging program starts with a desulphation step, so you do not have to worry about that!!" (yes they put two exclamation marks!) They don't go into any detail about this "step". Does that really mean that if I use the CTEK regularly I will never again suffer a sulphated battery? Somehow I doubt it?

I'm very pleased indeed with all this info they've passed on and I've thanked them profusely. It's so refreshing to get a communication from a company like this which demonstrates how obviously passionate they are about their products and customers. I've politely asked if they would care to expand about what this "desulphation step" consists of. Can't wait to get their reply.

 

[Crossthreaded]

Thanks Seastormer. That's helpful to know.
I've had another contact from CTEK's technical people themselves with a lot of additional tech stuff. They say specifically that "CTEK chargers are safe to electronics" They go on to say if you select RECOND it raises the voltage to a max of 15.8 volts (most manufacturers specify that 16 volts max is sustainable apparently) but current is kept very low as it only does this after carrying out a full battery charge. They say to use RECOND only if a battery has been substantially flattened or once a year as a "proactive treatment". From what I gather it promotes "a controlled gassing" at the plates which will cause the electrolyte to move around and so remix the electrolyte. That worries me just slightly with a sealed battery, but I suppose they know what they are doing. I've heard of stratification before as it can happen to a battery if it's left unused for long periods. The acid and water can separate out into layers so becoming less efficient at doing it's job. Unsurprisingly Recond works well on flooded batteries - included EFBs like mine - but won't benefit AGM or Gel types as they have no liquid electrolyte. In fact they say that whilst "Reconding" an AGM battery will not harm it there's no point in doing it but you should NOT do a Recond on a GEL battery as, they say, it can cause the gel to solidify and will ruin the battery. Depending largely on battery size and which model charger you have, The Recond process will last typically between half an hour and 4 hours.

The above is a condensation of a page and a bit of info - well done CTEK - Then right at the end they popped in a wee paragraph to the effect that stratification can cause a battery to perform in a similar way to sulphation and not to confuse them. - Sulphation, of course, is something Lead Acid batteries will nearly all suffer from with age and is a battery killer. Just about the best way to induce it is to not use a battery and not keep it charged. So I was very interested indeed to read the last paragraph of their missive where they say that "every CTEK charging program starts with a desulphation step, so you do not have to worry about that!!" (yes they put two exclamation marks!) They don't go into any detail about this "step". Does that really mean that if I use the CTEK regularly I will never again suffer a sulphated battery? Somehow I doubt it?

I'm very pleased indeed with all this info they've passed on and I've thanked them profusely. It's so refreshing to get a communication from a company like this which demonstrates how obviously passionate they are about their products and customers. I've politely asked if they would care to expand about what this "desulphation step" consists of. Can't wait to get their reply.

Well I continue to be impressed

Thanks Seastormer. That's helpful to know.
I've had another contact from CTEK's technical people themselves with a lot of additional tech stuff. They say specifically that "CTEK chargers are safe to electronics" They go on to say if you select RECOND it raises the voltage to a max of 15.8 volts (most manufacturers specify that 16 volts max is sustainable apparently) but current is kept very low as it only does this after carrying out a full battery charge. They say to use RECOND only if a battery has been substantially flattened or once a year as a "proactive treatment". From what I gather it promotes "a controlled gassing" at the plates which will cause the electrolyte to move around and so remix the electrolyte. That worries me just slightly with a sealed battery, but I suppose they know what they are doing. I've heard of stratification before as it can happen to a battery if it's left unused for long periods. The acid and water can separate out into layers so becoming less efficient at doing it's job. Unsurprisingly Recond works well on flooded batteries - included EFBs like mine - but won't benefit AGM or Gel types as they have no liquid electrolyte. In fact they say that whilst "Reconding" an AGM battery will not harm it there's no point in doing it but you should NOT do a Recond on a GEL battery as, they say, it can cause the gel to solidify and will ruin the battery. Depending largely on battery size and which model charger you have, The Recond process will last typically between half an hour and 4 hours.

The above is a condensation of a page and a bit of info - well done CTEK - Then right at the end they popped in a wee paragraph to the effect that stratification can cause a battery to perform in a similar way to sulphation and not to confuse them. - Sulphation, of course, is something Lead Acid batteries will nearly all suffer from with age and is a battery killer. Just about the best way to induce it is to not use a battery and not keep it charged. So I was very interested indeed to read the last paragraph of their missive where they say that "every CTEK charging program starts with a desulphation step, so you do not have to worry about that!!" (yes they put two exclamation marks!) They don't go into any detail about this "step". Does that really mean that if I use the CTEK regularly I will never again suffer a sulphated battery? Somehow I doubt it?

I'm very pleased indeed with all this info they've passed on and I've thanked them profusely. It's so refreshing to get a communication from a company like this which demonstrates how obviously passionate they are about their products and customers. I've politely asked if they would care to expand about what this "desulphation step" consists of. Can't wait to get their reply.

Ok folks, I've had a reply back from the super helpful CTEK people regarding what the charger is doing in that desulphation part of the program. They start off by telling me what I would guess most of us already know (but I don't criticise them for "setting the scene") that a sulphated cell has sulphation covering, or more usually, partially covering, the active surface of the plate. This stops the plate reacting with the electrolyte and acts as a high resistance to electrical current.

I'll precis this to shorten it and interpret some of the "Swedish English".

When the charger is connected and switched on it first tries to pass a charging current. If it sees voltage rising but no current (or, I suppose, only a very low current) flowing it keeps going till it hits 15.8 volts. If still little current is flowing this is where it decides the cell must be sulphated so it initiates a 5 Hz pulsing with a 15.8 volt peak and no more than 0.5 amps current. This should shift at least some surface sulphation from the plate and expose active surface. When it's "happy" - I don't know what "happy" parameters might be - it drops into a standard charging program. I believe if "happy" is not achieved within some prescribed time it lights up a red light on the charger to indicate it's given up and I suppose you can then conclude the battery is probably unserviceable.

This procedure is preformed at every commencement of charge. If no high cell resistance is found it skips the desulphation procedure and goes straight on with a standard charge. Clever Eh?

So, in conclusion, I'm very impressed with the customer relations/technical people at CTEK. Very few companies would bother to go into such fine detail or supply actual figures of performance like this. I feel I completely understand now what this charger is doing when I switch it on and what I can realistically expect of it.