Brakes problem

[Pob87]

Having big problems bleeding my brakes. Tried everything and im starting to get nervous now.

Everything's been changed, new everything about from master cylinder and brake servo.

It seems as though everything bleeds correctly.. until I start the engine!. Pedal feels as it should right up until the point of turning over, then the damn thing drops to the floor with no pressure there at all.

Does this sound like something serious?

I'm hoping someone here had had a similar problem because I'm out of idea's now.

 

[iammooks]

Don't worry - you're not the only one. A lot of us have had issues bleeding the brakes and getting a good firm pedal and on paper, we've all done everything right.

While my pedal doesn't sink straight to the floor, if I keep constant pressure on it, it'll get there eventually.

If your system has been emptied completely of brake fluid, you may need to bleed your ABS using VCDS.

In my experience, it's often a matter of air not being completely purged from the places it tends to collect. A good tip I had (I think from [mention]Yellow fr [/mention]) is to take the calipers off and orientate them so the bleed nipple is the highest point, before opening the nipple and winding the piston back using a caliper rewind tool. I did that on my rears and got a good bit of air out that way.

Sometimes it's a matter of bleeding them, going for a drive while doing some hard braking and then bleeding them again, but then that might not be an option in your case.

Of course, it's important to make sure you don't have a leak - given you've done a lot of work on them that might be an issue. I last bled my brakes a year ago and the levels haven't dropped since then, which is why I think my problem is just not having bled them properly.


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[Thai-wronghorse]

The brakes on mine are the bane of my life and since rebuilding the system they've never felt quite right after multiple bleeding sessions even using VCDS to activate the ABS pump.
When I get the chance I need to have another go as it takes far too much initial pressure on the pedal to achieve a decent bite.

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[Pob87]

Don't worry - you're not the only one. A lot of us have had issues bleeding the brakes and getting a good firm pedal and on paper, we've all done everything right.

While my pedal doesn't sink straight to the floor, if I keep constant pressure on it, it'll get there eventually.

If your system has been emptied completely of brake fluid, you may need to bleed your ABS using VCDS.

In my experience, it's often a matter of air not being completely purged from the places it tends to collect. A good tip I had (I think from [mention]Yellow fr [/mention]) is to take the calipers off and orientate them so the bleed nipple is the highest point, before opening the nipple and winding the piston back using a caliper rewind tool. I did that on my rears and got a good bit of air out that way.

Sometimes it's a matter of bleeding them, going for a drive while doing some hard braking and then bleeding them again, but then that might not be an option in your case.

Of course, it's important to make sure you don't have a leak - given you've done a lot of work on them that might be an issue. I last bled my brakes a year ago and the levels haven't dropped since then, which is why I think my problem is just not having bled them properly.


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Actually the abs light is showing on the dash, but I put it down as the callipers not being bled properly.

Maybe looking into bleeding the abs is something I should look into.

I haven't got the software for that though. I don't know much about it tbh. Just that there's a free and paid version?

 

[Pob87]

The brakes on mine are the bane of my life and since rebuilding the system they've never felt quite right after multiple bleeding sessions even using VCDS to activate the ABS pump.
When I get the chance I need to have another go as it takes far too much initial pressure on the pedal to achieve a decent bite.

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I'm slowly losing the will to live Thai. Bled the master cylinder earlier, after the 3rd try of no luck with the callipers and peppered my freshly powdercoated engine bay. Powder hates brake fluid . I'd be pissed off with that if I wasn't already pissed at the brakes.

Just need to get this sorted or at least as close to how it was as possible, and I'll worry about the cosmetic stuff later

 

[Woody_72]

I'd find a good independent VAG specialist and let them have a crack. They'll know all the relevant tips and tricks and have all the right tools and gear.

 

[mty12345]

Actually the abs light is showing on the dash, but I put it down as the callipers not being bled properly.

Maybe looking into bleeding the abs is something I should look into.

I haven't got the software for that though. I don't know much about it tbh. Just that there's a free and paid version?

Calipers not being bled will not bring the ABS light on, sounds like you need to bleed the ABS pump. You need the full version of VCDS to do so.

 

[Pob87]

I'd find a good independent VAG specialist and let them have a crack. They'll know all the relevant tips and tricks and have all the right tools and gear.

Problem is I can't move the thing as there's no brakes. Maybe I can find someone that does call outs though

 

[Pob87]

Calipers not being bled will not bring the ABS light on, sounds like you need to bleed the ABS pump. You need the full version of VCDS to do so.

Is it absolutely necessary to need the software?. Can it be 'part' bled manually. Enough to give me some bite on the brakes so I can get her to a garage?

 

[Pob87]

Just bought the £225 3vin version of VCDS, hopefully this cures it. if not it looks as though its a handy bit of kit to have anyway

 

[iammooks]

Actually the abs light is showing on the dash, but I put it down as the callipers not being bled properly.

Maybe looking into bleeding the abs is something I should look into.

I haven't got the software for that though. I don't know much about it tbh. Just that there's a free and paid version?

VCDS/VAGCOM can be a bit hit and miss - like any code reader to be honest. A garage I went to recently couldn't get theirs to talk to my car, but that does seem to affect the diesel Leons, while petrol ones are fine. I have looked for a full version on eBay and there are lots of Ross-Tech VCDS/VAGCOM copies/clones/fakes out there but unless you're willing to spend around £500 on the official version, you might get stuck with something that doesn't quite do what you need it to.

If you've changed your master cylinder and servo, it does seem likely that your ABS needs bleeding - especially if the light is on. As others have recommended, a call to a VW specialist should put you on the right track and they might even be able to come to you (probably for a 'modest' fee) or there might be a mobile mechanic who can do the same.

Once that's done, and if you're still having trouble with a soft pedal, have a look for some hose pinchers - sometimes called brake pipe clamps - as these can essentially lock off individual calipers and help you diagnose where there might be air in the system. They're also handy if you need to replace an individual caliper and don't want your hoses dripping fluid while you change everything over.

 

[Pob87]

VCDS/VAGCOM can be a bit hit and miss - like any code reader to be honest. A garage I went to recently couldn't get theirs to talk to my car, but that does seem to affect the diesel Leons, while petrol ones are fine. I have looked for a full version on eBay and there are lots of Ross-Tech VCDS/VAGCOM copies/clones/fakes out there but unless you're willing to spend around £500 on the official version, you might get stuck with something that doesn't quite do what you need it to.

If you've changed your master cylinder and servo, it does seem likely that your ABS needs bleeding - especially if the light is on. As others have recommended, a call to a VW specialist should put you on the right track and they might even be able to come to you (probably for a 'modest' fee) or there might be a mobile mechanic who can do the same.

Once that's done, and if you're still having trouble with a soft pedal, have a look for some hose pinchers - sometimes called brake pipe clamps - as these can essentially lock off individual calipers and help you diagnose where there might be air in the system. They're also handy if you need to replace an individual caliper and don't want your hoses dripping fluid while you change everything over.

Thanks for the lengthy replies mate, appreciate it.

I'm hoping it's just a case of the abs module needing purging. I've read that this needs to be done when the reservoir gets low/empty (which mine was)

I purchased mine from ilexa.co.uk.. a genuine Ross tech seller. But I bought the 3vin version.. not the unlimited, which was £400+

 

[mty12345]

Just bought the £225 3vin version of VCDS, hopefully this cures it. if not it looks as though its a handy bit of kit to have anyway

Fair play mate, that should sort it. There is no way to bleed the ABS pump manually, so I don't think you had much choice. The air gets trapped in there if the fluid level drops, and without the computer opening and closing the valves, there is no way of getting it out.

 

[Pob87]

Bit of an update on this.

Ran vcds and then did a pressure bleed on the calipers.
Managed to clear a load of air from the abs module, which I was relieved at.
Started her up and the pedal still drops, albeit not as much. There is bite there this time just very spongy.

Also had to bleed the clutch as there was nothing there.

Should I have another go at bleeding callipers as well as the master cylinder this time?
I did the master cylinder a few bleed attempts back, but haven't touched it since.

 

[iammooks]

Bit of an update on this.

Ran vcds and then did a pressure bleed on the calipers.
Managed to clear a load of air from the abs module, which I was relieved at.
Started her up and the pedal still drops, albeit not as much. There is bite there this time just very spongy.

Also had to bleed the clutch as there was nothing there.

Should I have another go at bleeding callipers as well as the master cylinder this time?
I did the master cylinder a few bleed attempts back, but haven't touched it since.

Good news! It's always good when you do something and you can feel a difference and know it's coming right.

If you've got the energy, you'll probably need to bleed it a couple of times over. The reason I never really finished mine was because I was just exhausted from going round the corners and then the master cylinder - where the bleed nipples aren't that accessible on the ARL engine without removing the boost pipe - and I was just getting fed up.


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[Pob87]

Yes mate, getting there slowly. I've bled the thing more times than I've had hot dinners this week. Was close to giving up until the win with the abs yesterday.

I'll give it a couple more goes then and see how it goes.

Sounds like your mc nipples are in the same shitty position as mine on the amk. Ain't looking foward to it.

 

[smutts]

Just bought the £225 3vin version of VCDS, hopefully this cures it. if not it looks as though its a handy bit of kit to have anyway

£225 for only 3 vins? Hells Bells, am I glad I bought mine six years ago,

 

[Pob87]

£225 for only 3 vins? Hells Bells, am I glad I bought mine six years ago,

Had no choice really fella. It'll just be me using it anyway so I'm not too bothered