can tdi's ever be as fun as petrols?

[beefy]

When roads are dry my cordy se tdi 130 is so much fun. The acceleration is awesome, although it can wheel spin from time to time if I put my foot down and lose some power. When it is wet (ie just a little bit of surface water) it is a completely different story, if i put my foot down in 1st 2nd or 3rd the car just wheelspins and tbh I would probably struggle to beat a smaller car with a 1.2 engine.

I know i can control the accelerator and the clutch to prevent it from doing this but I can never get the full power of my car. I thought this was the case with all "fast cars".

My gf bought an FR 150 last night and we were out playing in it. There was surface water last night and when I had a shot i put my foot down from stationary and pushed it all the way to 80mph (revving the car to about 6000rpm every gear) and the traction control never came on once. I was amazed.

Is assume it is the massive amout of torque that causes my car to wheelspin. Is there anyway round this. Can I get my car remapped so the BHP increases and the torque either stays the same or decreases a little (or would this be pointless, if possible)?

I have tried putting my tires to a lower psi a couple of weeks ago to see if it would grip the road a little better but it didnt do much good. If i got bigger wheels/tires, sports supension and lower the car would the traction be any better or would it still wheelspin constantly?

How much of a difference do top of the range tires have, I just have standard tires on my car, if I changed them would that help?

In scotland it is probably only dry for about 4 months per year so if there is nothing I can do to make my car more "fun" to drive during the wet months I may have to go and buy myself a petrol and lose $hit loads of money

Driving my gf's car has kind of made me see the light and fall in love with petrol cars, it is basically the first fast petrol car I have ever driven in my life...

Any help to make my car grip the road better would be much appreciated

Thanks

Graham

 

[cheb]

im a lover of diesels and went to the darker side not long ago with a 1.8 corsa and a Fiesta ST, both reasonably quick and good fun to drive, but just lack the power and ecomony the ibiza has got.

i know where you are coming from with when driving in the wet as it hard to put the power down and does get frustrating. not too long ago had a off-the-line sprint with t-spark and he left me, this was in the pouring rain too. noth cars are neer enough identical in engine spec but he controlled it alot better off the line as i booted it and it just sat there spinning and didnt get grip till late thrid. i think its just a case of adapting your driving style to suit the car when driving in the wet.

i doubt i would go back to a petrol car after having the ibiza, it just shows you can have economy and performance which i always presumed would never go together.

 

[devonutopia]

I like to think mine's fun. It's fun smoking people out behind you. It's fun making heads turn when I get the turbo spooling and chattering, then dumping. Its good getting heads turning just because it's different from the average fabia. To drive, it's quick. But is still a nose heavy thing, so handling will never be that brilliant. I'm planning some form of weight loss program for her soon, which should all help with power and handling. Not sure a TDI will ever be as fun as a petrol with similar power, buts its a lot more fun running around in a quick TDI, than some normally aspirated wheezy petrol.

 

[Sisson]

When i had my coilovers and 17's on wheelspin was reduced dramatically, but now back on the standard 16's the wheelspin is horrendoues, As soon as it comes on boost, the wheels spin up like made... Its still fun tho...

Ill be changing the tyres to Some Toyo proxes or Eagle F1's to hopefully gain a bit of traction back...


In the wet you shouldn't be nailing it anyway, its far too dangerous and unpredicatable... fair enough we all do it but take it easy now its coming to winter especially with all the ice and also having 185 horses under my right foot

 

[cheb]

good point there - its more fun wiping the smile of a petrol heads face with a diesel when overtaking as no one expect a tractor to be quick to they?

i like the sticker on t.sparks back window, 'team diesel' in bit letters, kinda rubs salt in the wounds.

 

[spyke85]

Never had any problems with wheelspin on mine but think I got use to driving diesels at work in horrible weather last winter. I do like smoking people though and think its a great car to drive (And no I don't need a remap T.Spark)

 

[dmjw01]

How much of a difference do top of the range tires have, I just have standard tires on my car, if I changed them would that help?

Tyres can make a huge difference, especially since you say the traction and grip are bad in the wet.

When I first got this car it had Dunlop SP2000 all round (and still has them on the back). I thought they were appalling in the wet - when I had them on the front they understeered shockingly and the wet traction was terrible. Wear rate is good with those Dunlops, but to be honest I'd rather have tyres that grip really well with shorter life than long-life tyres that don't grip.

I quickly replaced the fronts with a pair of Toyo Proxes T1-R, and they were very good. Those lasted about 12,000 miles, and have now been replaced with a pair of Goodyear GS-D3, which are even better - they are especially good in the wet. Neither are cheap, though. I haven't had the GS-D3's long enough to guess what the wear rate is going to be like.

 

[Snoopcousins]

You shouldnt be having that much wheelspin unless you were flooring it in low revs but you said you wernt so it must be your tyres...
get yourself some performance tyres around 190 for 2 fitted (17") and you should be ok.
Maybe you motor has already been remapped..?!

 

[BeezerDiesel]

An FR 150 would actually be a Diesel. Or are we talking Ibiza 1.8T?
I've had four remapped TDIs now, plus two remapped 1.8Ts and never really had an issue with wheelspin.
I would suggest you may well benefit from easing the power in more gently in the wet before flooring the accelerator. Mind you if you are driving balls out in the wet I would think it won't be too long before you NEED to look for a new car.

 

[chillcupra]

I have just had goodyears fitted all around and it does make a difference. Although i do like diesel the only reason I have one is because i drive alot. If i worked closer to home I would 100% have a petrol turbo etc. I cant stand the sound of the diesel engine but having peformance and economy is good enough.

 

[redcupratdi]

"can tdi's ever be as fun as petrols?"

compare indectical spec car... Cupra tdi and 1.8T

both remap to 205bhp circ
which one is most fun?

(hypothetical question)

Driving a car is as fun as you make it!

 

[Muttley]

beefy wrote


I know i can control the accelerator and the clutch to prevent it from doing this but I can never get the full power of my car. I thought this was the case with all "fast cars".

I don't understand what you mean by "I can never get the full power of my car"? Do you mean "I can't just mash the pedal flat without getting wheelspin"?

My gf bought an FR 150 last night and we were out playing in it. There was surface water last night and when I had a shot i put my foot down from stationary and pushed it all the way to 80mph (revving the car to about 6000rpm every gear) and the traction control never came on once. I was amazed.

The petrol engine delivers its power/torque over a broader rev range, and starts off at lower power: see the figures below. You can do the same by being just a little more careful with your right foot. However the biggest difference is likely to have been tyres.

Is assume it is the massive amout of torque that causes my car to wheelspin. Is there anyway round this. Can I get my car remapped so the BHP increases and the torque either stays the same or decreases a little (or would this be pointless, if possible)?

No. Torque and bhp have a fixed relationship.

Torque(in lb-ft) x rpm = BHP x 5252

See here and here.

It can be looked at as BHP = (How big a bang you can make) x (how quickly you can make the next one).

Understanding this equation gets to the heart of your question.

The cars "BHP" is only available at maximum revs, and max revs for a diesel is lower, limited by the speed of the flame front in the combustion chamber.

So at, say, 2000 rpm your TDI 130 has dramatically more HP than your girlfriends FR150 (83 vs 62 BHP).

I have tried putting my tires to a lower psi a couple of weeks ago to see if it would grip the road a little better but it didnt do much good. If i got bigger wheels/tires, sports supension and lower the car would the traction be any better or would it still wheelspin constantly?

How much of a difference do top of the range tires have, I just have standard tires on my car, if I changed them would that help?

Reducing tyre pressure to get better grip is an ancient trials/hillclimbing technique for rough ground and mud. On tarmac it will make your grip worse.

Bigger wheels won't fit in your arches: Bigger wheels per se will improve top speed and worsen acceleration. Bigger wheels/lower aspect-ratio tyres will improve cornering ability by increasing sidewall stiffness but not help to stop wheelspin.

Stiffening suspension and improving damping will make a big difference to cornering but little if any to wheelspin in a straight line.

Lowering is mainly done for cosmetic reasons; it can make handling better if accompanied by changes in damping and spring rates, but can also make it worse.

The single biggest mechanical factor in putting down power is the tyre. Better tyres will stick to the road better and delay wheelspin. In the dry, tyre compound is the only factor: in the wet, tread pattern is more important as well as cold performance (tyres never warm up properly in the wet).

After that, the biggest factor is driver ability.

In scotland it is probably only dry for about 4 months per year so if there is nothing I can do to make my car more "fun" to drive during the wet months I may have to go and buy myself a petrol and lose $hit loads of money

You definitely need to get better tyres, ones with good wet weather performance. You could even have two sets of wheels, one with dry tyres on and one with wets

Driving my gf's car has kind of made me see the light and fall in love with petrol cars, it is basically the first fast petrol car I have ever driven in my life...

You've been suckered by the petrol engine's gentler power delivery. A TDI is much more driveable, has better overtaking capability and is easier to drive in traffic - in general much more fun overall, and just as much fun on the open road.

Interesting figures halfway down this page. The TDI 130 is close to the FR 150 in the same shell despite being 20bhp down and 90 kilos heavier.

Useful table mostly taken from this page.

Technical Specification

Engine type		  1.9 TDI PD 130     1.8 20V T 150
		
Compression ratio		19:1		9.5:1
		
Maximum power		  130PS@4000rpm	     150PS@5500rpm
		
Maximum torque		  229lb-ft@1900rpm   162lb-ft@2000rpm

Power at max torque		83 BHP		62 BHP

 

[T. Spark]

i know where you are coming from with when driving in the wet as it hard to put the power down and does get frustrating. not too long ago had a off-the-line sprint with t-spark and he left me, this was in the pouring rain too. noth cars are neer enough identical in engine spec but he controlled it alot better off the line as i booted it and it just sat there spinning and didnt get grip till late thrid. i think its just a case of adapting your driving style to suit the car when driving in the wet.

So what your saying is im the better driver, not that my car is quicker! Well as we all know, Red is the fastiest colour

On a more serious note, I did indeed know not to just hammer time it off the lights, and tho meaning its no where near as fast in the dry, I find it fun to try and control the car in the wet! If I wanted, I could wheelspin in the wet up til 4th gear, when I'll find grip

good point there - its more fun wiping the smile of a petrol heads face with a diesel when overtaking as no one expect a tractor to be quick to they?

i like the sticker on t.sparks back window, 'team diesel' in bit letters, kinda rubs salt in the wounds.

Indeed, I love watching the iccle petrol's struggle to find power off a roundabout and me take advantage of their weakness, and wam im infront!

And as you said, once im infront (sooner or later ) then they get to see the "Team Diesel" vinyl, and sure enough that will keep them trying for another few roundabouts!

Never had any problems with wheelspin on mine, and no I don't need a remap T.Spark

You were saying?

 

[cheb]

So what your saying is im the better driver, not that my car is quicker!

dont let it go straght to ya head just yet, im still trying to get back into the swing of things, two petrols and just having to spend three weeks with a 1.2 polo aint helped and things are still a bit 'tight' at tho mo.

or am i just searching for excuses?

 

[devonutopia]

I chucked this little arrangement on the back of my fabia to remind people exactly what it is that's causing them so much bemusement

 

[T. Spark]

I chucked this little arrangement on the back of my fabia to remind people exactly what it is that's causing them so much bemusement

haha, that pretty kooool! Cant really see how big it is tho (my vinyl stretches from one end of the rear window to the other, and is around 20cm tall )

 

[devonutopia]

My Briskoda.net sticker is a little shorter, but the same width. That badge is of a merc, and is around 10" wide. The other lettering is made up of standard Skoda lettering.

 

[Kendo]

Think the desiel has more power where it counts.

 

[m0rk]

excellent post Mutley

 

[beefy]

thankyou all

I think it must be the tyres as the ones on my car are quite cheap, I am hoping to buy new alloy wheels in the near future so

I test drove a Leon TDi FR 170 yesterday in the wet and whilst it did wheelspin a little it was no where near as extreme as my car. I was really close to just signing for it but paying 240 p/m for a leon (not including insurance etc) or paying £0 for my cordoba caused me to get cold feet. The funny thing is, the leon didnt feel as fast as my cordy, didnt push me back in the chair as much as my little car does

Just curious what would win

My Cordy 130TDi SE or my mates Astra SRi+ 140 bhp

It says on paper his car does 0-60 in about 0.1 secs faster than mine...