Car rolling backwards... in gear

[NinjaPirateUK]

Last night I heard a loud 'crack' outside followed by a chugging sound which stopped pretty quickly. I looked out of the window to see my 1.8 TSI Leon in the middle of the road...

The car had rolled backwards off the driveway (which is on an incline), whilst in 1st gear with the handbrake applied! The noise was the engine cranking over backwards. The car is not left 'resting' on the gearbox, I just engage 1st as a bit of extra reassurance.

Can anybody tell me whether this is likely to have caused any mechanical damage?

I started it up and put it back on the drive, but had a few warning lights flash up very briefly. That said, it seems to run normally. My first thought was that the handbrake cable had snapped and the car had popped out of gear, but the handbrake was fine and the car was definitely still in 1st.

If the engine hadn't stopped it it would probably have written off itself and possibly another car at the bottom of the hill, so perhaps it was lucky in a way...

 

[marty_34]

heard of the on the astra j, id say trip to dealers to investigate as that dont sound right if was in gear

 

[Biker]

id say trip to dealers to investigate as that dont sound right if was in gear

Thinking out loud here and I'm not really sure of the answer myself but, as the engine was turning backwards, the valve timing would be all wrong (I think) so it's likely the engine would have no compression. That may be why it slowed the car down, rather than stopping it.

The handbrake does need to be sorted out though, that should have held.

 

[NinjaPirateUK]

The car seems to be running ok, but I am going to mention it to them.

I've never pulled the handbrake on with massive effort as it's never been required in any other car I've owned, including my old Mk2 Leon. Due to the lack of trust I have in it, I'm now pulling it on as much as possible, which shouldn't be necessary.

I'm getting seriously fed up with SEAT at the moment. It's been such an ordeal getting other basic problems sorted out I'm actually dreading bringing this one up with the dealer.

It's in for a new thermostat and temperature sensor next week, so we'll see what happens.

 

[BigfatPaulie]

How steep is this "incline" ??????

Are you SURE it was in 1st ? I cant see how it could roll unless it was 45 degrees or more ;-)

Try parking on level ground, engage 1st with handbrake off and push the car.... its no mean feat !

 

[Seastormer]

I'm on an incline with my drive too, glad I got the dsg as you can only get the key out with it in park, which locks the gearbox.

 

[NinjaPirateUK]

How steep is this "incline" ??????

Are you SURE it was in 1st ? I cant see how it could roll unless it was 45 degrees or more ;-)

Try parking on level ground, engage 1st with handbrake off and push the car.... its no mean feat !

The incline is about 25 degrees, 30 at the most, not what I would call particularly severe. I'm guessing a bit admittedly, not being at home at the moment.

It was in 1st gear and it was definitely still engaged when I got into the car to move it afterwards. I deliberately didn't touch the gear stick before I moved off again.

I'll try giving it a push in gear when I'm on level ground to see what happens, It'll probably fall to bits and burst into flames!

 

[BigfatPaulie]

Just got back in... put my 1.6D into first and I cant budge it !!!! (and Im a pretty big guy...)
Apart from the rocking it feels like the handbrake is on...

Puzzling

 

[andrewpain]

there was an issue with golf TSi engines certainly on mk5 GT140/170, where rolling backwards in gear could (would) throw the timing chain off the sprocket or stretch it, and the chain could then come off and wreck the engine when running.
quite a well-documented fault...

 

[andycupra]

25-30 degrees.. that fecking steep!

 

[NinjaPirateUK]

25-30 degrees.. that fecking steep!

Having arrived home and had a good look at it, I might have exaggerated slightly... Maybe 15 to 20 degrees having had a proper physical look at it. I see it every day, but trying to actually remember was harder than I thought! It seemed steeper in my head sat at work!

The car doesn't seem to want to budge on the flat when in gear. I'm sort of tempted to try putting it on the drive and seeing if first will hold it, but don't want to tempt fate.

 

[Seastormer]

Having arrived home and had a good look at it, I might have exaggerated slightly... Maybe 15 to 20 degrees having had a proper physical look at it. I see it every day, but trying to actually remember was harder than I thought! It seemed steeper in my head sat at work!

The car doesn't seem to want to budge on the flat when in gear. I'm sort of tempted to try putting it on the drive and seeing if first will hold it, but don't want to tempt fate.

Sit in it and try, even shake about to see if anything happens, and you can use the footbrake if it does.

 

[Benjiman]

Did you have a 'spirited' drive before you parked up?
I had a car creep down a hill once, after the brakes had cooled and shrunk a bit. Handbrake was still on. Needless to say, anytime I parked on a hill, that handbrake was as close to the roof as I could get it!

 

[NinjaPirateUK]

Sit in it and try, even shake about to see if anything happens, and you can use the footbrake if it does.

I can confirm that it will roll back in 1st gear. The engine does seem to be turning over backwards, I can feel and hear the fuel sloshing back and forth between rotations if that makes sense?

Not going to repeat it again, but I do plan on giving the dealership yet another thing to them to maybe bother looking at.

Did you have a 'spirited' drive before you parked up?
I had a car creep down a hill once, after the brakes had cooled and shrunk a bit. Handbrake was still on. Needless to say, anytime I parked on a hill, that handbrake was as close to the roof as I could get it!

No spirited driving at the moment, quite the opposite actually, given the engine temp problems I'm having. Too much air over the rad and the engine temp drops off the bottom of the scale, as does the oil temp. Limping along at 60 on motorways and dual carriageways is starting to wear very thin. Interestingly my inspection and oil services are now displaying as 1400 miles apart.

The hill hold releasing on to the handbrake has caused it to start creeping in the past, so I'm wary of it. I am suspecting this might have been a factor, but the handbrake held it for about 5 hours before it rolled backwards.

 

[andycupra]

what happens if you put it in reverse?

I think technically you should put it in 1st or reverse depending on direction of slope.

however 1st usually works..

 

[NinjaPirateUK]

what happens if you put it in reverse?

I think technically you should put it in 1st or reverse depending on direction of slope.

however 1st usually works..

I tried it in reverse and it does the same thing. I was taught 1st facing uphill and reverse facing downhill, although I've been told different. I haven't tried facing downhill in-gear though.

I've got the car back from having the thermostat sorted out today and had a chat with the service manager, who agreed that it's not normal for a car to roll backward in gear. They have checked the handbrake and confirmed that the hill assist is operating as it is supposed to.

I offered to demonstrate the fault for them, but they declined. They did show some genuine concern that this might be a safety issue though. I did question whether it could be clutch slip or loss of compression, but these would have other, more obvious, symptoms.

They are sending a fault report to SEAT to see if they have any information or can advise them on the next course of action.

I'm hoping it doesn't turn out to be something stupid that I'm doing, but I'm sure you guys would have pointed out anything massively wrong with the way I'm doing things

Watch this space.