Custom remap (stage 1) plus "???"

motty225

Polestar 2
Sep 11, 2008
927
201
Ashby De-La Zouch
Have people in this forum, having done a stage 1 tune, experienced any problems with reliability or technical failures caused by the tune?

And if so, did it give problems with warranty, because that was refused because of being tuned?
Any ecu change will void the warranty on the engine/gearbox
 

CupraRST

Active Member
Feb 25, 2020
54
21
NL
Together with the ECU stage 1 tune I also want the DSG tuned. The allowed torque will be raised, together with the clutch pressure. I also expect changed settings for the revs for both up- and down-shifts, different for S and D. Is this correct and does anyone have an idea of the new rev settings?

Are there more changes in the DSG settings?

What is the best choise next to a ECU stage 1, DSG stage 1 most likely, or maybe even stage 2 and what are the difference? What is most peoples choise?
 
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Jenko

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
63
63
:):):)
Together with the ECU stage 1 tune I also want the DSG tuned. The allowed torque will be raised, together with the clutch pressure. I also expect changed settings for the revs for both up- and down-shifts, different for S and D. Is this correct and does anyone have an idea of the new rev settings?

Are there more changes in the DSG settings?

What is the best choise next to a ECU stage 1, DSG stage 1 most likely, or maybe even stage 2 and what are the difference? What is most peoples choise?
Depends what you want really, different company’s have different claimed figures, Different torque outputs, Or you could go down the custom map route. With the map and DSG stage 1 I’ve got I can choose what RPM limits I want for the three stage launch control. You can have the auto shift removed, speed limiter removed. Just all depends how much you wanna spend and what you want from it.
If you’ve got a car with the GPF filter like mine I don’t think there’s many company’s out there that do a stage 2 yet. Although the extra power for stage 2 from stage 1 on the pre GPF cars wasn’t worth the extra money IMO.
You can’t really go wrong with either REVO or APR, the 888 engines are quite fuel sensitive so if you get the 98 ron map make sure you only put the good stuff in.
 

CupraRST

Active Member
Feb 25, 2020
54
21
NL
:):):)
Depends what you want really, different company’s have different claimed figures, Different torque outputs, Or you could go down the custom map route. With the map and DSG stage 1 I’ve got I can choose what RPM limits I want for the three stage launch control. You can have the auto shift removed, speed limiter removed. Just all depends how much you wanna spend and what you want from it.
If you’ve got a car with the GPF filter like mine I don’t think there’s many company’s out there that do a stage 2 yet. Although the extra power for stage 2 from stage 1 on the pre GPF cars wasn’t worth the extra money IMO.
You can’t really go wrong with either REVO or APR, the 888 engines are quite fuel sensitive so if you get the 98 ron map make sure you only put the good stuff in.
What I really meant is that next to a custom stage 1 ECU remap, I also want a DSG remap. Either stage 1 or 2, depending on what's beter for now and maybe for future higher ECU remap. I didn't know there are so many TCU remap options....
What do you mean with three stage launch control?

I have a Cupra R ST, which has 2 GPF filters. You are right, at the moment stage 1 ECU seems to be the max. Which is okay for me. Maybe after a few years I will look further. But then it seems more logic to pass stage 2 and go for stage 3, if possible. But stage 1 will be powerfull and fast enough for the coming years....

I first have to find out what the different options are for a TCU remap (and what is usefull for me) , because every option seems to come at a cost...
 

Jenko

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
63
63
What I really meant is that next to a custom stage 1 ECU remap, I also want a DSG remap. Either stage 1 or 2, depending on what's beter for now and maybe for future higher ECU remap. I didn't know there are so many TCU remap options....
What do you mean with three stage launch control?

I have a Cupra R ST, which has 2 GPF filters. You are right, at the moment stage 1 ECU seems to be the max. Which is okay for me. Maybe after a few years I will look further. But then it seems more logic to pass stage 2 and go for stage 3, if possible. But stage 1 will be powerfull and fast enough for the coming years....

I first have to find out what the different options are for a TCU remap (and what is usefull for me) , because every option seems to come at a cost...
Same car as I’ve got then, I’ve got APR stage 1 with the APR DSG tune. I’ve got a turbo intake with a panel filter and my car puts out 372bhp with 418ftlb of torque.
I think REVO put out a very similar power but with around 50ftlb less of torque but you don’t require a DSG tune with there stage 1 map. So for the same power that would be a cheaper option.
The three stage launch control just means you can choose between three different rpms for the launch. Using half throttle, full throttle and then the kick down for the max launch. Although there’s nothing wrong with the 4000rpm launch it already has.
I know some company’s will do a 24 hour trial of the mapping software so maybe make some calls and that way you can try before you buy.
 

CupraRST

Active Member
Feb 25, 2020
54
21
NL
Same car as I’ve got then, I’ve got APR stage 1 with the APR DSG tune. I’ve got a turbo intake with a panel filter and my car puts out 372bhp with 418ftlb of torque.
I think REVO put out a very similar power but with around 50ftlb less of torque but you don’t require a DSG tune with there stage 1 map. So for the same power that would be a cheaper option.
The three stage launch control just means you can choose between three different rpms for the launch. Using half throttle, full throttle and then the kick down for the max launch. Although there’s nothing wrong with the 4000rpm launch it already has.
I know some company’s will do a 24 hour trial of the mapping software so maybe make some calls and that way you can try before you buy.
372 bhp is about what to expect from stage 1 plus the extra update parts, but 418 ftlb (aprox 567 nm) is far above that, it's a huge amount of torque!
I had never heard of this three stage launch, is it really effective?
 
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Bouloama

Active Member
Aug 10, 2018
32
4
Read through the options at dsg doctor's website. TVs engineering has a complete overview listed on their website of all options that are possible to optimize in the tcu.
 

Jenko

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
63
63
372 bhp is about what to expect from stage 1 plus the extra update parts, but 418 ftlb (aprox 567 nm) is far above that, it's a huge amount of torque!
I had never heard of this three stage lunch, is it really effective?
I wasn’t expecting that much torque either but really happy with it. Pulls like a train now.
The launch control is a bit of fun to play with and would be useful if your planing on taking it up a drag strip but I don’t use it much, the main thing I like is turning the auto shifts off in manual mode. Very useful if you plan on taking your car round a track.
It all depends what you want, I was lucky enough car to be able to buy my car without finance so if it breaks it’s my car to fix. if I had it on lease or PCP I probably would have stuck to a revo stage 1 with no DSG tune. (Easy to swap back and not putting as much strain on everything).
That being said the garage that tuned my car had a staff members car with the same gear box as mine and that was putting out over 450ftlb and they said they hadn’t had any issues with it.
 

CupraRST

Active Member
Feb 25, 2020
54
21
NL
I wasn’t expecting that much torque either but really happy with it. Pulls like a train now.
The launch control is a bit of fun to play with and would be useful if your planing on taking it up a drag strip but I don’t use it much, the main thing I like is turning the auto shifts off in manual mode. Very useful if you plan on taking your car round a track.
It all depends what you want, I was lucky enough car to be able to buy my car without finance so if it breaks it’s my car to fix. if I had it on lease or PCP I probably would have stuck to a revo stage 1 with no DSG tune. (Easy to swap back and not putting as much strain on everything).
That being said the garage that tuned my car had a staff members car with the same gear box as mine and that was putting out over 450ftlb and they said they hadn’t had any issues with it.
I don't intend taking the car to drag strips or to tracks, just for sporty road use.
Like you I'm happy to be able to buy this car, I intend to keep it for years and years to come.
I have the impressions that a lot of forum member are leasing their cars.

Tuning, both ECU and TCU, is not an every day thing. I want it as optimal as possible, with minimal risk...
 

CupraRST

Active Member
Feb 25, 2020
54
21
NL
It’s time to bring this thread back alive. Why? Several reasons:
- I made up my mind about what I wanted to be done with this tune.
- I made my decision about which tuner to go to.
- Tuning is already done!

For what I wanted to be done with this tune, I want to thank all of you for your input earlier in this thread and elsewhere in this forum! I also got a lot of helpful information from the 3 major VAG tuners in the Netherlands. At the end of this process I can say that I could stay pretty close to my initial ideas:

- Custom tune of the engine (ECU)
- Custom tune of the DSG (TCU)
- Modified OEM air intake + filter housing
- Adding a OEM blinding plate 5Q0129849 on the engine side of the air intake
- Replacing the OEM flat panel filter with the K&N KN 333005
- Replacing the OEM inlet hose with the Racingline VWR12G7R600ITHOSE
- Replacing the OEM turbo intake elbow with the Racingline VWR12G7R600ITINLET
- Switching the OEM diverter valve for an improved one, not the often used GFB DV+, but the Forge FMDVMK7R-C
- With several road tests and dyno runs: stock, after hardware changes, during and after remapping

At the same time I made the choice about which tuner to go to. I’m sure that all three specialized VAG tuners do a good tuning job. But there’s one that is not only specialized in this engine, but also in the DSG transmissions: TVS Engineering (also known as DSG Dokter). Engine and DSG have to work together to get the most out of the combination. They not only do a lot of tunes to engines and DSG’s, they also do repairs, rebuilds and improvements to engines and DSG’s. So, they know what they are doing. They also have over 100 dealers around the world. I went to their headquarters in Varsseveld.

There is a lot of differentiation in their tunes. For a good overview of the stages, with all different options within the stages, go to:
For engine (ECU): https://tvsengineering.com/en/performance/chiptuning/
For DSG (TCU): https://tvsengineering.com/en/performance/dsg-software/

Because they have more stages than most tuners, their stage numbers are not always the same.
I choose for their Stage 2+ for both engine (ECU) and DSG (TCU). This ECU tune can be compared with the normal Stage 1+. For my car, the downpipe, cat, both GPF’s (because it’s a 4Drive), exhaust and intercooler are still remaining stock.

Car at TVS, front (rev 01) WhatsApp Image 2020-09-25 at 10.01.27 (7).jpg


Making the appointment, they told me that for all I wanted they would need one full day and so it was: I arrived just before 9:00 and my car was ready at 18:15, after a full day work. Although everything was already spoken through, all choices in options were checked and confirmed again. I enjoyed following the whole process and was informed about every step. There were drinks and snacks and of course I wasn’t the only customer that day, so there was a lot to talk about.

After the first test drive on the road, with a laptop connected to the OBD2 terminal to check the health of the car, the first dyno run was made. Instead of the factory promised 300 PK (ca. 296 HP) and 400 Nm (ca. 295 lbft) there was a solid 304 PK / 5813 RPM (ca. 300 HP) and 408 Nm / 4330 RPM (ca. 301 lbft).

The car was now driven into the garage. A complete readout was made from both the ECU and TCU stock maps. They were safely stored for security and possible later use, but they were also used as the basic starting point for my custom tune. Both the engine specialist and the DSG specialist started working on the files, while a mechanic was updating and modifying the entire intake path from air intake to the stock turbo.

Let’s follow the inlet air stream, we start with the air intake: Seen from the front of the car it has some open sections, open at the front (cold air comes in) and open on the engine side (warm air comes in). From the engine side the openings will be closed with the blinding plate. On the right side are similar sections, but they are closed and will be opened now to let cold air in from the front. Holes were drilled and the middle sections were cut out. The sides were nicely smoothened. (See pic: on top the stock air intake, below after the modification, the engine side on the left will be blinded to make it a cold air intake.)

Air intake, stock and modified (rev-01).jpg


From the now cold air intake the incoming air enters the filter housing and is partly blocked by the snow grate, that covers a big part of the filter panel surface. That snow grate is removed.

Then the air goes through the OEM paper flat panel filter, that is now replaced by a K&N filter with oiled cotton in multiple layers.

From there the air flows through the OEM plastic pipe with flexible harmonica sections. This is replaced by the Racingline hose, made of silicone. I’s a bit wider and much smoother, without harmonica sections.

Then, just before the turbo, the air enters the plastic OEM turbo inlet elbow. This is replaced by the aluminum Racingline elbow, which is again a bit wider and smoother than the original one.

While working there, at the same time the OEM diverter valve (again made from plastic) is replaced by a aluminum made Forge recirculating valve. Not for more power, but for a more reliant working on the long run. I could have wait for when replacement was needed, but I choose for doing it together with the tune.
In the photo collage you see, from top to bottom: The stock engine, the removed parts, the engine with most parts removed, the new parts, the engine with the new parts.

Engine bay with old and new parts (rev 01, more compression) copy.jpg


After all this was done and after warming up the car, it was moved onto the dyno again. I was very curious what these changes would bring. I was not disappointed at all, on the whole rev range there was more power and torque. Measured was 327 PK (+23 PK) and 421 Nm (+13 Nm). This is 322,5 HP (+22,5 HP) and 310,5 lbft (+9,5 lbft). Plus, above 5800 RPM both graphs kept on going before dipping at 6400 RPM now. A nice result I think, without any remap till now.

At the same time all the above was done, both custom remaps for ECU and TCU were built. Based on the original maps, their huge experience with these engines and DSG’s, plus my wishes in options. The re-flash was done and the car could be tested, both on the road and on the dyno. The read outs were inspected and adjustments were made in their computers, because results are close, but never perfect the first time. For fine tuning this whole process was repeated a couple of times, making little improvements.

On the dyno (rev01)S1040006.jpg




Seat Leon Cupra ST (2019) - Comparison (rev 01)(crop).jpg


In the dyno graph above you see three situations compared: the grey lines and values are from the stock engine, the purple lines and values for the stock maps with hardware upgrades, the blue lines and values for stock engine with hardware upgrades and custom remaps for engine and DSG.

The final dyno results showed an impressive 397 PK (391 HP) and 528 Nm (389,5 lbft)!
Which is a gain of +93 PK (+92 HP) and +120 Nm (+88,5 lbft). This was measured with 98 RON petrol (BP Ultimate), which I always use.
And this result is without bigger downpipe, de-cat, GPF delete, other exhaust, or bigger intercooler. That’s all still stock. Looks like a very good result to me, what do you think?

How does it feel after this tune? Cruising around in traffic goes just as easy (maybe even easier and smoother) than before, but powering up with so much extra power makes me smile and grin every time. This tune makes my already very fast car even faster, a lot faster. It makes it feel much more alive. The difference is even bigger than I thought.
 
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AndrewJB

Friend to SEAT UK & Cupra Racing
Aug 16, 2007
11,102
448
Maranello
Nice writeup! I have heard of TVS a lot recently, a few UK dealers now offer their software.
 

Zer0

Active Member
Jun 22, 2019
452
213
Nice figures :). Not sure why they call it Stage 2+ though, as it's Stage 1 (like you said).

Car looks awesome.
 

Slickric21

Active Member
Feb 23, 2019
336
164
Norfolk
Awesome result that.

I’ll be going TVS when the warranty runs out on my R ST ABT for sure now that we can get this in the U.K. also.
 

CupraRST

Active Member
Feb 25, 2020
54
21
NL
@AndrewJB
Thanks!
Yes, results will improve with cat/gpf removal. But that's not what I want to do. I'm waiting till there are options for a bigger downpipe with 100 or 200 cell sports cat, that can be connected to the stock gpf's. As far as I know that doesn't exist at the moment. From what I've heard Revo seems to be working on that. So just wait and see if that comes and how it works.
 
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CupraRST

Active Member
Feb 25, 2020
54
21
NL
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CupraRST

Active Member
Feb 25, 2020
54
21
NL
Awesome result that.

I’ll be going TVS when the warranty runs out on my R ST ABT for sure now that we can get this in the U.K. also.
Thank you.
Yes, TVS is still expanding their dealerships worldwide.
The ABT tuning box that is offered in the UK while buying the car isn't offered in NL (or, as far as I know) anywhere else in Europe. Only as a separate package at a much higher price, directly from ABT. From reading the reviews the results are okay for the combo price (car + box) in the UK, including the warrenty. But not at the full price for the box alone. You would be better of with a custom tune. What's your experience with the ABT tuning box?
 
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Slickric21

Active Member
Feb 23, 2019
336
164
Norfolk
Thank you.
Yes, TVS is still expanding their dealerships worldwide.
The ABT tuning box that is offered in the UK while buying the car isn't offered in NL (or, as far as I know) anywhere else in Europe. Only as a separate package at a much higher price, directly from ABT. From reading the reviews the results are okay for the combo price (car + box) in the UK, including the warrenty. But not at the full price for the box alone. You would be better of with a custom tune. What's your experience with the ABT tuning box?
My experience is very good to be honest.
Car does 3.95 second 0-60, 1/4 mile in 12.2 and 100-200kph in 11.04.
I do have similar intake mods to you.
I’d expect the TVS tuned car to do much better than these times however !!!
 

CupraRST

Active Member
Feb 25, 2020
54
21
NL
My experience is very good to be honest.
Car does 3.95 second 0-60, 1/4 mile in 12.2 and 100-200kph in 11.04.
I do have similar intake mods to you.
I’d expect the TVS tuned car to do much better than these times however !!!
Those are good times! Good to hear you are satisfied with the ABT box. But you still want it to be faster, haha. ;)
By the time my tune was ready sadly there was no opportunity to do a Dragy test because it was rush hour. My tuner told me to expect acceleration times 0-100 km/h in 3.x seconds and 100-200 km/h below 10 seconds. I don't have a Dragy myself. I wonder if there is a free Android app that gives reliable test results?
 
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