Decision : LCR k1 or VXR burg..

[Jedimaster65]

My wife once owned a Vauxhall Corsa (facelift). The customer service was absolutely shocking, plus they hadn't addressed some issues we highlighted when dropping the car off during a Service. So walking back in to ask why these hadn't been done, they were so defensive trying to turn it around, almost pointing the blame back to us! You what!? (crazy). Services were pricey too

Yes, my experience was the same with my (then) new Calibra.
Local dealer just bloody awful, made me feel like a total inconvenience! Shocking!

I now have a genuine friendship with my local Seat dealer, especially the lads in the workshop...that counts for a lot when you understand each other.

VXR ? Do you want fries with that ?

 

[Al]

Said this before, but here we go again.

Appearance is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think the Astra looks really dated now but the I think the Cupra K1 is fugly. Result = Draw. Therefore I would pick a Cupra, and compare it on that basis because at that point it is a win to the Cupra.

Standard Performance => Standard vs Standard = 240bhp(VXR) vs 260bhp (Cupra) based on most r/r graphs of stock VXR's and Cupra's. Cupra is faster on the road and 1/4 mile in standard form vs a standard Astra VXR.

Tuned Performance => Tuned vs Tuned and maxed out on stock turbo vs maxed out on stock turbo = Cupra win due to 60+bhp advantage.

Handling = Cupra win even though the Cupra is nowhere near the best handling hatch. Cupra wins purely because Astra VXR handling is suspect at best.

Brakes = Cupra win. No contest.

Interior = Cupra win as seats are far better, there is more space, and where the Cupra fails on the central part of the dash, at least it doesn't have archaic dials, switches and fittings. That being said, it would be down to the individual to decide that so result may be classed as a Draw.

Exhaust note = Ear of the beholder. Some like the Remus on the Nurburgring, but if you live with it a while, it can get too much, even though it does sound good. That being said, a Milltek on a Cupra is awesome too. Result = Draw

Tuning potential = Cupra win. Factory 240bhp figure on both cars expands to approx 300bhp on the Astra vs 360bhp on the Cupra.

Obsolescence = Cupra win. Astra VXR is running a none current chassis and body.

Resale = Cupra win. You struggle to find a decent Cupra under £10k. Plenty of VXR's under £10k.

Safety = Cupra win (better crash results from the detail I have seen)

C02 = Cupra win (lower CO2)

Practicality = Cupra win (5 doors)

Reliability = Cupra win. Loads more engine/turbo issues on VXR than Cupra.


No brainer for me. Cupra.

 

[LeonFR07DSG]

^ end thread.

 

[CHRI55]

vxr bad : are they quick then ?

rapid 8) especially the remapped S3's :!:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PiperRS : are they quick then ?

Suprisingly

Should show you Astra boys a clean pair of heels.

(Runs and hides)

Garry

PMSL

 

[Jedimaster65]

^ end thread.

Agreed.

As Jeremy Clarkson said on Top Gear recently, "Weren't you listening? - As I (Al) said, it's a brilliant car, & there is nothing more to say"!

 

[Scottmf]

k1 mate any day i had vxr for over a year spent more time in garage then on the road had three turbos in 4 months then was sold! k1 or cupra much better easier to mod and more fun to drive!

 

[hedge9001]

Burg

I owned a burg fOr a year, enjoyed it bought cuora k1 love it now ready sell go summit else focus rs or cupra r i'd say seat are better!!!

 

[andy_gdon]

Owned a lot of performance cars, including the 'burg vxr. I'm fairly well educated and don't fall into the common misconception that only chavs drive vxr's!

Said this before, but here we go again.

Appearance is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think the Astra looks really dated now but the I think the Cupra K1 is fugly. Result = Draw. Therefore I would pick a Cupra, and compare it on that basis because at that point it is a win to the Cupra.

Your first sentence is correct....the rest is gibberish. The 'burg is a much better looking and more aggressive looking wagon

Standard Performance => Standard vs Standard = 240bhp(VXR) vs 260bhp (Cupra) based on most r/r graphs of stock VXR's and Cupra's. Cupra is faster on the road and 1/4 mile in standard form vs a standard Astra VXR.

Most 'burgs are kicking around 255bhp ....don't forget that the op is talking about the 'burg!! As for 1/4 mile I don't know as the Cupra owner kept avoiding me at the track!

Tuned Performance => Tuned vs Tuned and maxed out on stock turbo vs maxed out on stock turbo = Cupra win due to 60+bhp advantage.

I got 310bhp with a fmic, exhaust, plugs and map. So the Cupra tunes better but at 360bhp the fed chassis is overwhelmed!

Handling = Cupra win even though the Cupra is nowhere near the best handling hatch. Cupra wins purely because Astra VXR handling is suspect at best.

You're right...neither handle well but the vxr isn't as bad as clarkson makes out. Trying owning and tracking one!! A few simple mods transform it.

Brakes = Cupra win. No contest.

Agreed

Interior = Cupra win as seats are far better, there is more space, and where the Cupra fails on the central part of the dash, at least it doesn't have archaic dials, switches and fittings. That being said, it would be down to the individual to decide that so result may be classed as a Draw.

Bar the orange colour of the lights, the burg has a much much nicer interior, full leather standard, piano black finishings etc. The Cupra looks a lot like my wife's old altea derv inside

Exhaust note = Ear of the beholder. Some like the Remus on the Nurburgring, but if you live with it a while, it can get too much, even though it does sound good. That being said, a Milltek on a Cupra is awesome too. Result = Draw

The burg's Remus is easily the best sounding exhausts on any hot hatch straight from the dealers! It's not intrusive on long journeys.

Tuning potential = Cupra win. Factory 240bhp figure on both cars expands to approx 300bhp on the Astra vs 360bhp on the Cupra.

Seen a lot of these 360bhp cars make less but, yes, the Cupra makes more power at less money.

Obsolescence = Cupra win. Astra VXR is running a none current chassis and body.

Explain in more detail

Resale = Cupra win. You struggle to find a decent Cupra under £10k. Plenty of VXR's under £10k.

You won't find many decent burgs under 10k

Safety = Cupra win (better crash results from the detail I have seen)

Encap readings for both...remind me

C02 = Cupra win (lower CO2)

Why buy a performance car? Astra is still in the £225ish bracket per year...what's the Cupra?

Practicality = Cupra win (5 doors)

Not cool if you're young/no kids

Reliability = Cupra win. Loads more engine/turbo issues on VXR than Cupra.

No real engine issues due to forged internals. Some leaky turbo gaskets in the vxr. However the Cupra isn't exactly trouble free!

No brainer for me. Cupra.

At the end of the day you have negated a few things....

1. The Cupra is a poor mans golf and will always be seen as a lesser model
2. The Cupra looks virtually identical to every other derv Leon running about
3. And this is a big one for me. The Cupra is not as fun to drive, nor does it feel special. A hot hatch should make you feel special and get people looming twice.

I love my wee Leon derv but I'm under no illusions or blinded by my car badge.

Look beyond badge loyalty people...there are a lot of good cars out there!!

 

[betty_swollox]

1. The Cupra is a poor mans golf and will always be seen as a lesser model

I don't think this is the case these days. People who chose a Golf GTI over a cupra because of the name is just a retard to be honest.

I know quite a lot of people who have gone from Audi/VW to SEAT (and no they haven't changed because they couldn't afford the car).

 

[Al]

Wee comment;

At the end of the day you have negated a few things....

1. The Cupra is a poor mans golf and will always be seen as a lesser model

May be true, but a Vauxhall is a stack em high and sell em cheap range of cars too.

2. The Cupra looks virtually identical to every other derv Leon running about

Actually it doesn't. Using the same analogy, the SRi and other 3 door Astra's look like the VXR.

3. And this is a big one for me. The Cupra is not as fun to drive, nor does it feel special. A hot hatch should make you feel special and get people looming twice.

Not as fun to drive as what? A VXR? Granted a Monaro VXR8 would be more fun to drive, but never in a million years would an Astra VXR be more fun to drive unless you like crap power bands, wooly steering and torque steer .

I love my wee Leon derv but I'm under no illusions or blinded by my car badge.

Nor am I under any illusions. I would admit to wanting a MK6 Golf R20T, but I refuse to spend Supercar money on a Golf.

Look beyond badge loyalty people...there are a lot of good cars out there!!

Agreed. The Astra VXR is/was not one of them though. VXR220, Monaro VXR8 Barthurst are though.

Will take a whiz through the big list when I have more time unless someone else saves me the bother

 

[Al]

Your first sentence is correct....the rest is gibberish. The 'burg is a much better looking and more aggressive looking wagon

The Astra VXR is an old looking and creaky car now - the body/chassis it uses has been superceded!

Most 'burgs are kicking around 255bhp ....don't forget that the op is talking about the 'burg!! As for 1/4 mile I don't know as the Cupra owner kept avoiding me at the track!

Never seen any standard VXR up this way kick out over 250bhp, but even if it did, a Nurburgring does have the added benefit of a turbo back exhaust. Add a turbo back exhaust to a Leon Cupra, and you will have 270bhp . Also still never seen a standard turbo Astra VXR make it to low 13's on the 1/4 mile. A few Cupra's have done 12 second 1/4 miles with a standard turbo now and ET's over 112mph

I got 310bhp with a fmic, exhaust, plugs and map. So the Cupra tunes better but at 360bhp the fed chassis is overwhelmed!

Don't you just love optimistic rolling roads and peaky charts . Also, some would argue the Astra VXR chassis is overwhelmed as standard. From experience, I don't believe that the chassis on a S2+ Leon is overwhelmed with the correct chassis mods although I do agree its too much power from the front wheels, especially in the wet.

You're right...neither handle well but the vxr isn't as bad as clarkson makes out. Trying owning and tracking one!! A few simple mods transform it.

Same as any car bud

Bar the orange colour of the lights, the burg has a much much nicer interior, full leather standard, piano black finishings etc. The Cupra looks a lot like my wife's old altea derv inside

Seats in the VXR are crap by comparison. Dials are what you look at and the switches in a VXR can be found in a 15 year old Vectra. Agree with the comparison of an Altea but it is a variation car on the same chassis same as the Zafira is to the Astra

The burg's Remus is easily the best sounding exhausts on any hot hatch straight from the dealers! It's not intrusive on long journeys.

You haven't heard a Milltek on a tuned K04 2.0T then . Personally I think the Nurburgring does sound good, but it is always noisy and some would class that as "chavvy". I don't agree that a Remus Astra VXR sounds better than a Milltek on a Leon

Seen a lot of these 360bhp cars make less but, yes, the Cupra makes more power at less money.

Many make over 360bhp too. Very few Astra VXR's, from what I have seen, make over 300bhp from standard turbo without major re-working, and even if you do make over 300bhp, its just and no more. Remap alone on a Cupra gives the same power and torque and (probably) better plots.

Explain in more detail (obsolescence)

Astra VXR is old body, old chassis

Astra which is currently on sale

You won't find many decent burgs under 10k

Nurburgrings are limited number cars with a number which tend to assist with value holding even though it is basically an Astra VXR in white with graphics, white wheels and a Remus exhaust

Encap readings for both...remind me

Astra Score between 3 tests = 10
Leon Score between 3 tests = 11

Why buy a performance car? Astra is still in the £225ish bracket per year...what's the Cupra?

Astra = 221 C02's
Leon = 190 CO2's

Not cool if you're young/no kids

Good thing the rear doors are hidden on the Leon then

No real engine issues due to forged internals. Some leaky turbo gaskets in the vxr. However the Cupra isn't exactly trouble free!

You don't need to look far to see loads of issues on VXR's. I was passenger in a Nurburgring a couple of years back that had the turbo blow and a new engine and turbo was needed.


Of course different focus/slants will apply, and thats especially dependent on what car you drive but look at any test to see that neither the Leon or Astra do well in group tests, but the Leon tends to do better than the Astra in them too from what I have seen.

I think the forthcoming Astra VXR will be worth watching and it should definitely become one of the better hot hatches although I doubt it will beat the Evo/Impreza/RS/Renault

 

[betty_swollox]

Dials are what you look at and the switches in a VXR can be found in a 15 year old Vectra.

lmao!!!!

 

[betty_swollox]

Owned a lot of performance cars, including the 'burg vxr. I'm fairly well educated and don't fall into the common misconception that only chavs drive vxr's!




At the end of the day you have negated a few things....

1. The Cupra is a poor mans golf and will always be seen as a lesser model
2. The Cupra looks virtually identical to every other derv Leon running about
3. And this is a big one for me. The Cupra is not as fun to drive, nor does it feel special. A hot hatch should make you feel special and get people looming twice.

I love my wee Leon derv but I'm under no illusions or blinded by my car badge.

Look beyond badge loyalty people...there are a lot of good cars out there!!

I love the fact that the Leon is sporty AND practical. How is having 5 doors uncool?? So having a 5 door S3 makes it less cool than a 3 door S3?

Only a "Billy-No-Mates" would cry about having a 5 door car. 3 doors are perfect for loners

 

[Jedimaster65]

I love the fact that the Leon is sporty AND practical. How is having 5 doors uncool?? So having a 5 door S3 makes it less cool than a 3 door S3?

Only a "Billy-No-Mates" would cry about having a 5 door car. 3 doors are perfect for loners

He's right !

No one looks a 5 door Golf Gti and shouts 'Uncool'.

VXR is cheap nasty Chav car. Cupra benefits from VAG group quality and technology in a more attractive body shape.

VXR benefits from GM's sub-terrainian share price!

 

[betty_swollox]

He's right !

No one looks a 5 door Golf Gti and shouts 'Uncool'.

VXR is cheap nasty Chav car. Cupra benefits from VAG group quality and technology in a more attarctive body shape.

VXR benefits from GM's sub-terrainian share price!

VXR = scruff-mobile

 

[Al]

RS3 is 5 door only. Its very cool . Evo's are 5 door only. They are ace too.

 

[betty_swollox]

I'd happily drive my diesel "bus" over a VXR, it's a right hill billy car

 

[betty_swollox]

RS3 is 5 door only. Its very cool . Evo's are 5 door only. They are ace too.

Really?? I'd rather die than own one of those. They're so uncool with their 5 doors. I'd rather drive a nissan micra 3 door. Now THAT is cool

 

[andy_gdon]

1. I have no overwhelming brand loyalty (owned 3 evo's, 'burg, RS, 225, Cupra) so I'm certainly not slating the Cupra....just pointing out that having actually owned a burg and taken the time to use it properly on the track I know it's not as bad as you are trying to make out.

2. The op asked about the vxr nurburgring...NOT a standard vxr

3. How much is the Cupra per year to tax again?

4. What encap rating again?

...3+4.... splitting hairs and hardly worth puttin in an argument against the vxr

5. Vxr seats are absolutely superb, comfortable and very supportive

6. Having done many SMD conversions I can confirm that the dials and controls are not lifted from an older vauxhall

7. Finally, the rolling road. This is a dastek unit that I know is accurate! I made 310, 308 and 307.5 on different days. One of which seen many standard cars make standard power. I did have some generic map, I had one properly written for my car...the best form of tuning!

 

[betty_swollox]

6. Having done many SMD conversions I can confirm that the dials and controls are not lifted from an older vauxhall

I don't think he actually meant that they were literally from an old vectra....but the circular heat dial looks like something out of my grandads old vectra which was about 15 years old I think...