Model Year 21/22 Electric mode

[Janco]

Hi all!

In owning my Cupra Formentor 2021 since beginning this year and i really like the car!

However, i also have some annoying issues regarding hybrid mode.

I decided to buy a plug in hybrid for the reason that I can drive fully electric to work. My work trip is daily 14km, which suits perfectly the 55km limited range. I started very disappointed in winter with cold temperatures, but now the temperatures are better I consume around 30% daily instead of 50%, which is what I would expect!

However, I start noticing that sometimes the car decides to go to hybrid mode without any option to go back to electric. For example, today I drove from work to the supermarket electric. But when driving home the last 1km it decided to start in hybrid mode while my battery is 35%. The menu item is also blocked. Yesterday, randomly while driving, this also happened.
Why does this happen and how can I disable it?

Another annoying thing is have is when I'm doing a long trip, and the battery just can't make it home (In either hybrid or full electric) it starts to charge the battery using gas.
Especially with the expensive gas prices it's ridiculous it's starting the engine and burning expensive fuel to charge the battery while i would be home in 10 minutes to charge it way cheaper. Not only that, it drives and brakes extremely strange when its recharging the battery and reving up the engine.

I can't find any option to disable this also. It's just annoying that it feels like I'm not in control of the car; it makes decisions while I know better when I'm home or where I can charge for cheap. No need to burn gas for that.

Is it possible to disable this as well, maybe through ODB interface?

 

[CupForm]

the last 1km it decided to start in hybrid mode while my battery is 35%. The menu item is also blocked.

You'll find that from time to time, the system will decide to start the ICE, even when your HV battery is almost full, for reasons that are not transparent to the user. It could be related to the charge-state of the 12V battery, or to the fact that the car decides the combustion engine needs to be started for some reason (e.g. lubrication, temperature). Indeed, the menu item "Electric mode" is blocked until the ECU decides it is ok to stop the engine - it is usually keeping it running long-enough to have a good lubrication and/or to reach a minimum temp. You'll notice this will happen more often during the cold season, and less during warm months. Also, if you have long intervals with pure-EV driving it might occur; but if you have your ICE running every few days, you'll find that it won't start the ICE when you don't expect it.

For the battery-charging while driving you need to check your settings - make sure you do not have it set to keep a minimum battery percentage. If that setting is Off, the car should drive normally in hybrid mode down to almost 0% state of charge of the HV battery. On the other hand, you should also learn to manage your battery for the extra-long trips: when you have a long drive and the battery won't last up to the end, you can Enable the "keep battery level" to a certain percentage and use EV mode when you're close to your destination. For instance one of the purposes of owning a PHEV is to avoid emissions in urban areas; therefore you start in EV while leaving the city, switch to hybrid for the long drive (maintain battery level if trip is too long) and switch back to EV when entering urban area.

p.s. for a 2021 car, it might be a good idea to check the 12V battery status.

 

[trew]

You'll find that from time to time, the system will decide to start the ICE, even when your HV battery is almost full, for reasons that are not transparent to the user. It could be related to the charge-state of the 12V battery, or to the fact that the car decides the combustion engine needs to be started for some reason (e.g. lubrication, temperature). Indeed, the menu item "Electric mode" is blocked until the ECU decides it is ok to stop the engine - it is usually keeping it running long-enough to have a good lubrication and/or to reach a minimum temp. You'll notice this will happen more often during the cold season, and less during warm months. Also, if you have long intervals with pure-EV driving it might occur; but if you have your ICE running every few days, you'll find that it won't start the ICE when you don't expect it.

For the battery-charging while driving you need to check your settings - make sure you do not have it set to keep a minimum battery percentage. If that setting is Off, the car should drive normally in hybrid mode down to almost 0% state of charge of the HV battery. On the other hand, you should also learn to manage your battery for the extra-long trips: when you have a long drive and the battery won't last up to the end, you can Enable the "keep battery level" to a certain percentage and use EV mode when you're close to your destination. For instance one of the purposes of owning a PHEV is to avoid emissions in urban areas; therefore you start in EV while leaving the city, switch to hybrid for the long drive (maintain battery level if trip is too long) and switch back to EV when entering urban area.

p.s. for a 2021 car, it might be a good idea to check the 12V battery status.

Excellent post. It encapsulates perfectly why I sold the PHEV and went back to a good old petrol car. The novelty wore off and all that thinking just became a chore.

 

[CupForm]

The novelty wore off and all that thinking just became a chore.

The choice of a car type (ICE, HEV etc.) shouldn't be the novelty, but mainly the way you plan to exploit it.
It's a nonsense to buy a PHEV as long as you're not charging quite often and/or don't have (almost-) daily short trips.

 

[Janco]

You'll find that from time to time, the system will decide to start the ICE, even when your HV battery is almost full, for reasons that are not transparent to the user. It could be related to the charge-state of the 12V battery, or to the fact that the car decides the combustion engine needs to be started for some reason (e.g. lubrication, temperature). Indeed, the menu item "Electric mode" is blocked until the ECU decides it is ok to stop the engine - it is usually keeping it running long-enough to have a good lubrication and/or to reach a minimum temp. You'll notice this will happen more often during the cold season, and less during warm months. Also, if you have long intervals with pure-EV driving it might occur; but if you have your ICE running every few days, you'll find that it won't start the ICE when you don't expect it.

For the battery-charging while driving you need to check your settings - make sure you do not have it set to keep a minimum battery percentage. If that setting is Off, the car should drive normally in hybrid mode down to almost 0% state of charge of the HV battery. On the other hand, you should also learn to manage your battery for the extra-long trips: when you have a long drive and the battery won't last up to the end, you can Enable the "keep battery level" to a certain percentage and use EV mode when you're close to your destination. For instance one of the purposes of owning a PHEV is to avoid emissions in urban areas; therefore you start in EV while leaving the city, switch to hybrid for the long drive (maintain battery level if trip is too long) and switch back to EV when entering urban area.

p.s. for a 2021 car, it might be a good idea to check the 12V battery status.

Thanks for your explanation!
It's strange for me that those reasons are not transparent to the user; I really like the car, but those hidden data and reasons about the car choices really bothers me.
- the charge state of the 12v system seems questionable for me, because it should charge from the HV battery with a DC-DC converter if I'm not mistaken. Starting a car (not sure if this is done using the 12v system) is even extra wear on the 12v battery not? Does this car even have a regular alternator?
- Temperature seems strange as well; it's even more wear on the engine when started cold
- Lubrication seems even more strange. When I park my car for weeks it would neither start the engine to lubricate. Most oil will be in the carter anyway after some time. Starting an engine to lubricate is in general more wear as well.....

Is there an option to read ODB to see the reason for the ICE starts or did someone ever did research on it or ask Cupra itself?

The battery slider is set to 'auto' in hybrid mode (by default). Is this the correct value? It still charges the battery at some moments (I can notice that in the consumption) and it would just be great to disable that if I know i can charge for cheap within reasonable time. No need to charge with expensive gas.

 

[CupForm]

I'll try to answer point-by-point:
- the 12V battery never charges from the HV battery (on this model and it's VAG siblings). However, the 12V will be charged in 3 scenarios: while charging the HV battery, and while driving in EV or in hybrid mode;
- the ICE is not started by the 12V battery, but by the electric motor with energy from the HV battery - there's a K0-clutch to couple the motor to the engine;
- the phev doesn't have a regular alternator, instead it uses the motor as a starter (for the ICE) and as a generator (while recovering energy, or while "stealing" energy from the ICE);
- temperature- and lubrication-wise: it seems that the engine is being slightly "prepared" while driving in EV mode - so if you get the ICE starting when you're full-throttle (e.g. an overtake) it will not start completely cold-and-dry. If the car starts directly with the ICE at the initial Start-button-pres, you shouldn't worry too much - so do all the other cars that only have an ICE. In that case let it idle for a while and it will be good to go;
- AFAIK there's no easy way to read "behind the curtains" and check what parameter led to ICE start;
- if you do not plan to "reserve" some SoC for later in trip, the "Auto" setting seems fine. The car will generally recover some energy while slowing down, but it's strange for me that you say the ICE will charge the battery even when there still is some percentage left. I never noticed this behavior...
- instead of looking into the consumption to determine if the ICE is charging the HV.batt. you can see directly on the rev-meter: under 0 RPM there's a blue region showing how much electric power you get from the motor, and below that you have a green region that fills up proportional to the electric energy that is generated by the motor (generally while recovering during braking). If you see the ICE RPMs and the green-charging lit-up at the same time (I mean while not braking) - it means that the ICE is charging the HV.battery.

 

[trew]

The choice of a car type (ICE, HEV etc.) shouldn't be the novelty, but mainly the way you plan to exploit it.
It's a nonsense to buy a PHEV as long as you're not charging quite often and/or don't have (almost-) daily short trips.

Absolutely right. I charged mine faithfully for a year, used it almost exclusively for short journeys and revelled in the fact that I was getting the equivalent of 200mpg. But then I thought, 'sod this, I can't be bothered' and went back to being a petrolhead.

 

[Janco]

I'll try to answer point-by-point:
- the 12V battery never charges from the HV battery (on this model and it's VAG siblings). However, the 12V will be charged in 3 scenarios: while charging the HV battery, and while driving in EV or in hybrid mode;
- the ICE is not started by the 12V battery, but by the electric motor with energy from the HV battery - there's a K0-clutch to couple the motor to the engine;
- the phev doesn't have a regular alternator, instead it uses the motor as a starter (for the ICE) and as a generator (while recovering energy, or while "stealing" energy from the ICE);
- temperature- and lubrication-wise: it seems that the engine is being slightly "prepared" while driving in EV mode - so if you get the ICE starting when you're full-throttle (e.g. an overtake) it will not start completely cold-and-dry. If the car starts directly with the ICE at the initial Start-button-pres, you shouldn't worry too much - so do all the other cars that only have an ICE. In that case let it idle for a while and it will be good to go;
- AFAIK there's no easy way to read "behind the curtains" and check what parameter led to ICE start;
- if you do not plan to "reserve" some SoC for later in trip, the "Auto" setting seems fine. The car will generally recover some energy while slowing down, but it's strange for me that you say the ICE will charge the battery even when there still is some percentage left. I never noticed this behavior...
- instead of looking into the consumption to determine if the ICE is charging the HV.batt. you can see directly on the rev-meter: under 0 RPM there's a blue region showing how much electric power you get from the motor, and below that you have a green region that fills up proportional to the electric energy that is generated by the motor (generally while recovering during braking). If you see the ICE RPMs and the green-charging lit-up at the same time (I mean while not braking) - it means that the ICE is charging the HV.battery.

Last week again a few times it started the engine when I started the car after parking. A simple turn off and on solves it and going back into electric mode. Bit weird, but a pretty easy workaround. It didn't happen while driving.

Very interesting story about the 12V; good thing to keep in mind when blasting with a subwoofer.
So, as far as I understand you, there is a regular 12v alternator on the gearbox/engine which only provides power to the 12v system when in motion?
Besides that, they did add an AC -> 12V charger when charging the car, but they didn't bother by adding a DC-DC converter between the HV pack and 12v charger? Very interesting chose; also a way less efficient way of keeping the 12v system charged.

About charging; yes sometimes when the battery is almost depleted I can clearly see and feel that the engine is charging the battery; mostly after a roundabout or crossing. I guess to recover the energy inmediatly back. Sometimes just for 10 seconds.