Fr 1.9TDI performance improvements?!
- Thread starter Adibutti
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- 19tdi improvements performance
I know my brakes need upgrading, But theres just so many options. Looking at the porsche boxster set up, on 312 discs, and the complete brembo setup from jabba or godspeed, Have you any knowledge of the pros and cons of each.
T. Spark
Guest
Thats all I said to then be told it would never happen! The clutch on a standard Ibiza/Leon PD130/150 can handle 200bhp, its the torque it cant handle. I have over 295lb/ft of torque, on a standard clutch the car has over 48,000 miles on the clock, and the map has been on for over 40,000 miles and my clutch doesnt slip one bit. Depends on driver style, I dont feel the need to boot it at 1.5krpm so my clutch is happy.
agree with above. i see some one says a racing clutch is 700 - 800 squid? allards are charges 300 fitted for an uprated... is this clutch shite then?
Smee
Smee
T. Spark
Guest
I dont need to worrie either. Why 'boot' your car at lower RPM? Dont get me wrong, if I nip out at a roundabout in 2nd, at 1.5k im not gunna change down a gear to go, but sitting on the motorway in 6th and then planting your foot is about as useful as a car made of cake (la la la)
Your peak power is still going to be around 4,000rpm and the only thing your doing is giving your clutch grief, when all you need to do is drop down to 5th.
My point being, if you sit off boost at 1.5k and 'boot' it all the time, its gunna knacker your standard clutch within a few 0000's.
The difference between the uprated one will be it takes a few more 0000 miles to knacker that one up.
Hmm drop down at low rpm's when I really want to give my car some ragging, or pay £600+ for uprated clutches every 40,000 miles... hard choice.
T.Spark i dont think at all its AS CLEAN CUT as that.. you may have a good clutch, one of the odd ones that make it remapped, then theres others that slip on standard form, its a clutch lottery....
IT can be down to the map, it can be down to the driver, it can be down to the clutch...
But the end of what maz and also I am saying is... do you leave the clutch, rempa the car and drive sensibly as much as you can avoiding the peak torque (why would you do that anyway, its the best part!) and waiting a few thousand for it to go wrong.... what happens if it goes wrong at the wrong time, just before your holiday or your mortage on your house, or all the host of others things that cost a fortune to do... what do you do then... the car is buggered and you cant do much with it, yes you can limp it around, but i tell you this, i did it, and ITS A PAIN...
The best idea is to re-clutch even in standard form, its too near the limit in standard form to keep.
I remap a car to have more power, the power is at the peak torque, peak torque kills clutches... so why rempa in the first place....
Also i note T.Spark you have 1/4 mile times, you know that kills clutches quicker than booting it at 1k in 6th....
Not having a go, just pointing out points, i have inccured!
By the way the clutch from Allards is a Helix friction plate and etc, its not the whole kit, i thin the whole kit is around the same price as the Organic Sachs clutch... worth the whole kit... as if you replace the friction plate only... you know the saying, replace one weak link in a chain, you only find the 2nd weakest...
As for the brakes Matt... 4 pots i have heard good things about, hence i am doing a conversion and also Unclefester is in the process!
IT can be down to the map, it can be down to the driver, it can be down to the clutch...
But the end of what maz and also I am saying is... do you leave the clutch, rempa the car and drive sensibly as much as you can avoiding the peak torque (why would you do that anyway, its the best part!) and waiting a few thousand for it to go wrong.... what happens if it goes wrong at the wrong time, just before your holiday or your mortage on your house, or all the host of others things that cost a fortune to do... what do you do then... the car is buggered and you cant do much with it, yes you can limp it around, but i tell you this, i did it, and ITS A PAIN...
The best idea is to re-clutch even in standard form, its too near the limit in standard form to keep.
I remap a car to have more power, the power is at the peak torque, peak torque kills clutches... so why rempa in the first place....
Also i note T.Spark you have 1/4 mile times, you know that kills clutches quicker than booting it at 1k in 6th....
Not having a go, just pointing out points, i have inccured!
By the way the clutch from Allards is a Helix friction plate and etc, its not the whole kit, i thin the whole kit is around the same price as the Organic Sachs clutch... worth the whole kit... as if you replace the friction plate only... you know the saying, replace one weak link in a chain, you only find the 2nd weakest...
As for the brakes Matt... 4 pots i have heard good things about, hence i am doing a conversion and also Unclefester is in the process!
T. Spark
Guest
My point still stands im afriad. Im not saying dont get a uprated clutch, or my clutch is better than your clutch.
Im saying even after 10's of runs down santa pod returning some of the fastest 1/4 times for a phase1 mapped TDi FR beeza, and even after over 48,000 miles my clutch is fine, im not saying simply as I dont 'boot' it at 1.5k thats why. As you say, feeling the torque peak at near on 300lb/ft is the best bit on a derv, and I do it... but its inturn the fact I might be lucky and have a good clutch in standard guise, the fact I personally think my map is one of the best in the business (1.4 time's for all C-C P1 seem to be the best!?) AND the fact I dont 'boot' it at low rpm's all the time that has meant my clutch has lasted so long. The facts are my clutch has lasted this long (touch wood) and the only two VISIBLE reasons over others are the fact I dont 'boot' it at stupidly low RPM all the time, but enjoy my car nonetheless and the remap I have.
I was also saying, even with a uprated clutch, its only a matter of time until it wears, fact. My driving style, and map mean even a standard clutch has a good innings (so to speak) so a uprated one, I would hope, would last a very long time. These people with clutch slip should learn to drive around it, then uprated it imho! Teaches them the clutch isnt perfect and cant take abuse on a daily basis. You wouldnt red line your car in every gear from point a 2 b, cold from warm, in fear of the engine blowing up, tapping, turbo blowing. So why do the same to the clutch day in day out?
Once im at home, I wont feel the need to waste my time on SCN talking about clutches, and im leaving work in 8 minutes, so im afriad thats all I have to say on the matter... until a few drinks
Peace!
P.S Im right, your all wrong, nerner, ne ner ner!
My clutch used to slip at exactly 3k (even if I only booted it at 2.5k) - it got progressively worse over time, so I opted for the Sachs clutch kit while JBS had the offer on.
can some one define ragging ur car?
cos i take my car round to 4500 EVERY day the engines are strong and there designed to be reved. get an automatic and they always go to redline before changing (unless u back off accelerator) my car has been driven hard from day one. to be fair i feel bad that i miss treat the old girl but 40k in std clutch going strong and the old gal was remapped at 8k
surely ur maximum accelration is at 2k?? when torque has peaked?
2nd gear everyday. 1k rpm round to 4.5k rpm.. traction control lights up and im gone. after that its a case of just hammering the gears.
never change down from 6th. 80mph. just plant it and im soon seeing over a tonne (if need be)
only problem i have had with the clutch was i had wrong gear. 3rd gear pull away and i had to rev and ride the clutch as a truck was coming. lots of clutch slip.. been fine ever since tho
my 50p dont kill me.... just wasting time before job interview today :S
Smee
cos i take my car round to 4500 EVERY day the engines are strong and there designed to be reved. get an automatic and they always go to redline before changing (unless u back off accelerator) my car has been driven hard from day one. to be fair i feel bad that i miss treat the old girl but 40k in std clutch going strong and the old gal was remapped at 8k
surely ur maximum accelration is at 2k?? when torque has peaked?
2nd gear everyday. 1k rpm round to 4.5k rpm.. traction control lights up and im gone. after that its a case of just hammering the gears.
never change down from 6th. 80mph. just plant it and im soon seeing over a tonne (if need be)
only problem i have had with the clutch was i had wrong gear. 3rd gear pull away and i had to rev and ride the clutch as a truck was coming. lots of clutch slip.. been fine ever since tho
my 50p dont kill me.... just wasting time before job interview today :S
Smee
I suppose an Ibiza would have less slip than a Leon would it not, under similar circumstances? Its a lighter car, therefore less to carry, therefore less strain on clutch when booting.
Makes sense to me, probably wrong.
My thoughts are, I want a remap to enjoy a shed load more power, but I wont enjoy it cos I will be worried about my clutch.
Therefore I will get clutch first, but also need brakes and ARB's.
My £300 remap will cost me £2k and 3 months waiting at the end of the day.
Makes me wonder if its worth it sometimes.
Makes sense to me, probably wrong.
My thoughts are, I want a remap to enjoy a shed load more power, but I wont enjoy it cos I will be worried about my clutch.
Therefore I will get clutch first, but also need brakes and ARB's.
My £300 remap will cost me £2k and 3 months waiting at the end of the day.
Makes me wonder if its worth it sometimes.
2k??? lol where u get that number from?
remap it i wouldnt worry to much about the clutch. 300 lbft is what clutch can take and u will be just under it
Smee
remap it i wouldnt worry to much about the clutch. 300 lbft is what clutch can take and u will be just under it
Smee
700 clutch
600 ARB's
400 brakes
300 remap
by my calculations that makes 2k, correct me if I am wrong please....
600 ARB's
400 brakes
300 remap
by my calculations that makes 2k, correct me if I am wrong please....
arb's are 600 quid... ouch!!!! lol i aint doubting what u say just didnt think it was that much :S
id honestly do brakes and remap then save for the rest if needed
smee
id honestly do brakes and remap then save for the rest if needed
smee
T.Spark i think we are fighting two ends of a different stick i think..
The fact of the matter is as you say clutches die, weather mapped or not, your was has held up to this point becuase you think your driving style, this mybe correct, but as its been pointed out, its in a Ibiza, not a Leon, less weight to pull around, then there the point you say that you dont "boot" it from 1.5k... how do you do 1/4 mile runs then, as even when i used to put my foot down just half way from 2k in my remapped leon the clutch would slip, so no driving style other than tickling the pedal would have stopped that.
After all we are talking of some remapping a Leon, i doubt that the ibiza information is of a help to be honest.
So lets agree to disagree on the matter.
The fact of the matter is as you say clutches die, weather mapped or not, your was has held up to this point becuase you think your driving style, this mybe correct, but as its been pointed out, its in a Ibiza, not a Leon, less weight to pull around, then there the point you say that you dont "boot" it from 1.5k... how do you do 1/4 mile runs then, as even when i used to put my foot down just half way from 2k in my remapped leon the clutch would slip, so no driving style other than tickling the pedal would have stopped that.
After all we are talking of some remapping a Leon, i doubt that the ibiza information is of a help to be honest.
So lets agree to disagree on the matter.
T. Spark
Guest
Noooo lets not agree to disagree
Thats boring I found sitting at around 2.5/3k on the start line returned the best times..
Oh, and my 2nd best time was setting off in 2nd on the 1/4 strip
Im saying on a day to day basis, I dont 'boot' it at low rpm as no need.
I get the idea, your trying to say I dont give my car stick, and 'tickle' the pedal... anyone on here thats seen my drive will know different
The ibiza information is perfectly fine, as its the same clutch, and thats the only point I am making.
You have the right idea, upgrade everything, I upgraded brakes, suspension, arbs, brake fluid, spacers, bushes, once I had my map. I would say, brakes and suspension, arbs etc first imho. As my car was fast in a straight line, but come to a corner before I did all this extra work, and it suffered! Badly!
So, basically a standard clutch is only as good as a uprated one, depending on driving style. The difference will be how long each lasts before slipping.
I prefer to change my clutch later, rather than sooner, enjoy my car down at Santa Pod, trackdays, europe, the 'ring which it has all seen since my ownership from brand new. Day to day, i'll drop it and save myself £600 thanks
But thats my personal preference, even with a uprated clutch I will do the same. Why? Simply 'cos the same car at the side of you, with the same power, weight, will pull away by dropping it down a gear fact.
If 'I wanna go fast' I want to go as fast as the car can go.. not nearly as fast as it can go, and cause long term damage to the clutch and flywheel.
Word!
Oh god this is turning into like a playground fight...
I was refering to your driving style as tickling the power on... i was refering to what I had to do to drive the car anywhere once i had the remap, as any hint of turbo or peak torque and my clutch turned to jelly..
Yes the clutch is of same type but the chassis attached to that clutch is the difference its heavier, more of a load on the clutch!
You may be able to drive around on your clutch, but quite a few LEON owners have found that once the remap is done, clutch start to fail, little at the start, but in the end, its terrible and cant be lived with.
So you may like to save yourself £600 but others may rather pay the £600 and not have the head ache of a clutch repair at a later date, or the fact that sometimes, they just wanna overtake in 6th WITHOUT the judder of gearing down just to do it...
So enough now of the willy waving contest, i cant be bothered to type this all out again...back to the subject, making a leon TDI faster...
"Word!"
I was refering to your driving style as tickling the power on... i was refering to what I had to do to drive the car anywhere once i had the remap, as any hint of turbo or peak torque and my clutch turned to jelly..
Yes the clutch is of same type but the chassis attached to that clutch is the difference its heavier, more of a load on the clutch!
You may be able to drive around on your clutch, but quite a few LEON owners have found that once the remap is done, clutch start to fail, little at the start, but in the end, its terrible and cant be lived with.
So you may like to save yourself £600 but others may rather pay the £600 and not have the head ache of a clutch repair at a later date, or the fact that sometimes, they just wanna overtake in 6th WITHOUT the judder of gearing down just to do it...
So enough now of the willy waving contest, i cant be bothered to type this all out again...back to the subject, making a leon TDI faster...
"Word!"
T. Spark
Guest
Fight? Willy Waving? I didnt do such a thing? Im not saying a Ibiza isnt lighter? Or changing down a gear on a motorway will save your clutch?
Even more IBIZA owners have found once remap is done, the clutch start to fail. That was never my point. Im not saying your car's clutch was fine once it was mapped, or that your driving knackered it up.
Im saying that ANY CLUTCH uprated or not, will slip sooner or later, I prefer that to be later and think about how I drive the car.
Answer this
Would you A ) 'Boot' it in 6th, using every rpm available peak torque and all that jazz, on a regular basis and spend £600 every 40,000 miles?
B ) Drop it down a gear, and spend £600 every 80,000 miles?
That has been my only question, to which I personally answer, mostly due to covering so many miles in such a little time, B is the one for me
Not starting a fight, or a argurment, if any of my replys on here have looked/sounded like I was trying to fight then apoligies!
"Chicken Dippers"!
Im saying that ANY CLUTCH uprated or not, will slip sooner or later, I prefer that to be later and think about how I drive the car.
Answer this
Would you A ) 'Boot' it in 6th, using every rpm available peak torque and all that jazz, on a regular basis and spend £600 every 40,000 miles?
B ) Drop it down a gear, and spend £600 every 80,000 miles?
That has been my only question, to which I personally answer, mostly due to covering so many miles in such a little time, B is the one for me
Not starting a fight, or a argurment, if any of my replys on here have looked/sounded like I was trying to fight then apoligies!
"Chicken Dippers"!
Every uprated/stock clutch will start to fail after a set time. FACT
Every uprated/stock turbo will start to fail after a set time. FACT
Every part on every engine will start to fail after a set time. FACT
So do you drive carefully to save replacing your clutch so often?
Do you drive slower so as not to ware your tyres out so fast ?
Do you not brake so hard so as not to ware out your brake pads ?
So why did you get a remap ?
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