Heater Valve - Engine Pre-heater Info

[Deleted member 33999]

Hi Guys!

After a bit of technical info... I'm looking to install an engine pre-heater (cos I'm sad like that) but I can't seem to find any info about the heater control valve. It needs to be open for the pump to circulate coolant around then engine. I know some cars (my old BMW for example) close the valve when the heater is turned off with the ignition. I was wondering if the Seat system does the same? As far as I understand the thermostat in the rad should allow a trickle at first then open up normally as the water temp rises, so that shouldn't be an issue (unless I'm waaaaaay off the marks....)

Any info / advice would be appreciated

For those curious about the pre-heater details are here Price is about £350 direct from Kenlowe.

Thanks

 

[nightflight]

Can't help but what's the point in an engine preheater?

 

[Deleted member 33999]

The idea is that is supposed to reduce engine wear, save fuel etc etc. The page I linked in my original post has all the marketing blurb.

I just want one so that I can use power on my way to work. At the moment the engine is barely up to temp when I arrive (using Torque app on my phone with a Bluetooth OBD reader to check) whereas a pre-heated engine would be ready to go within a mile (my commute is 10 miles each way).

It also means that it won't take 5-10 mins to defrost the car running on choke for ages as the block warms up, so the fuel saving is an advantage. (Based on the price of fuel it will need to "save" 7 tanks to pay for itself).

But this is all hypothetical if the heater valve isn't open lol!

 

[DEAN0]

The new systems have more than one thermostatic valve to improve efficiency of warming up.

Stage 1 - coolant circulates around engine only for faster warm up.
Stage 2 - coolant circulates around engine and heater matrix
Stage 3 - coolant circulates around engine, heater matrix and radiator.

You would have to pick your connection point carefully so that you heat the ENGINE part first and then it will allow colant to move to the heater matrix.

 

[DEAN0]

I just want one so that I can use power on my way to work. At the moment the engine is barely up to temp when I arrive (using Torque app on my phone with a Bluetooth OBD reader to check) whereas a pre-heated engine would be ready to go within a mile (my commute is 10 miles each way).

Just remember it will not heat the OIL - turbo's and superchargers need the oil warming up before you boot it if you want to extend the engines life.

Another thought - IF you need to be using this heater - will the weather conditions not be bad enough that you cant use the power anyhow ?

 

[Deleted member 33999]

Thanks for that DEAN0, just to confirm, are the valves open while the engine is not running (as long as the temperatures rise)?

I know the oil will be cold, but that doesn't take anywhere near as long to heat up. The main idea is really for fuel saving, 30seconds to a minute to defrost is much better than 10minutes from cold.

As far as putting the power down, it's only really on the main roads for a short burst now and then, but I appreciate where you're coming from. I've just never been a fan of revving cold engines

 

[DEAN0]

Thanks for that DEAN0, just to confirm, are the valves open while the engine is not running (as long as the temperatures rise)?

What valves ?

Standard thermostatic valves are normally closed - when they get warm they open.
They are a mechanical device - not controlled by the ignition.

This is why you will need to pick the connection point carefully.

You need to pass the pre-heated water around the engine first.

When the engine gets warm - it will open the first thermostatic valve and allow coolant in to the heater matrix.

 

[Deleted member 33999]

What valves ?

Sorry, that's my poor understanding of how the cooling system works!

My old BMW was simple, but the heater "head unit" controlled the flow of water into the heater matrix, if you switched the heater off, it would divert all the water back to the main cooling loop essentially bypassing the heater matrix.

Assuming I find the correct connection point, the important fact (from the installation instructions point of view) is that the coolant can flow round the engine without it running. Otherwise the pre-heater unit will overheat.

 

[DEAN0]

Sorry, that's my poor understanding of how the cooling system works!

My old BMW was simple, but the heater "head unit" controlled the flow of water into the heater matrix, if you switched the heater off, it would divert all the water back to the main cooling loop essentially bypassing the heater matrix.

Assuming I find the correct connection point, the important fact (from the installation instructions point of view) is that the coolant can flow round the engine without it running. Otherwise the pre-heater unit will overheat.

OK - now I understand. Yes there will be some kind of control valve linked to the heater controls but it should not affect your install.
I belive that with climate control the air temp inside is controlled by mixing hot and cold air rather than diverting water.

The water will flow around the engine when heated by the pre-heater - at a set temp, the 1st thermostat will open and alow the warm water in to the heater matrix.
This flow will be generally unrestricted or it would be impossible to fill the cooling system without running the engine.

 

[Deleted member 33999]

Ah ha! You sir, are a gent!

Sounds like it's worth a go then (once it figure out which hose to install into)

Thanks for all the info DEAN0, if I ever see you knocking about Preston, I'll have to buy you a pint!

 

[NetworkMan]

AFAIK there isn't a separate heater control valve; the heater is of the air blending type.

Coolant flows through the heater matrix all the time and the air coming out of the vents is a mixture of cold unheated air and air that has gone through the matrix.

Is the engine a 1.4 TSI twincharger? If so you can find a diagram of the cooling system in:-

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_359.pdf

BTW on my 1.2 TSI the engine thermostats (there are two) do not distinguish beteen heater matrix and engine. It does, however, disable the coolant pump during warmup. I don't think the 1.4 TSI does this.


I can point you towards a diagram of the heater if you want that, but it might be in German.

 

[DEAN0]

AFAIK there isn't a separate heater control valve; the heater is of the air blending type.

When the engine thermostat/s is/are open the coolant flows through the heater matrix all the time and the air coming out of the vents is a mixture of cold unheated air and air that has gone through the matrix.

Is the engine a 1.4 TSI twincharger? If so you can find a diagram of the cooling system in:-

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_359.pdf

BTW on my 1.2 TSI the engine thermostats (there are two) do not distinguish beteen heater matrix and engine.


I can point you towards a diagram of the heater if you want that, but it might be in German.

Nice info NetworkMan - system is about how I expected.

Off topic - do you know if there is a documment like that for the 2.0CRTDi motor in the ibiza ?

 

[Deleted member 33999]

Thanks for the link NetworkMan, very helpful

 

[NetworkMan]

Off topic - do you know if there is a documment like that for the 2.0CRTDi motor in the ibiza ?

There is a list at:-

http://www.nininet.de/selbststudienprogramme.html

Looks like you need:-

SSP 403 - Der 2,0l TDI-Motor mit Common-Rail-Einspritzsystem

(Einspritzsystem - injection system)

.... but that's not available from the link I gave you

Try googling around - easier if you can read/translate German!

 

[Deleted member 33999]

So based on the diagram on page 24, would I be right in thinking that if I put the pre-heater in between the reservoir and the pump? Or would I need to bypass the normal coolant pump? The pump on the pre-heater is a non-interference pump i.e. water can flow through it when off.

 

[ibizaracebrake]

Don't Russians light a fire under their trucks to warm them up? I saw it on telly. If you park off road install a heating plate in the ground under the sump, or induction coil to electric heater?

 

[DEAN0]

So based on the diagram on page 24, would I be right in thinking that if I put the pre-heater in between the reservoir and the pump? Or would I need to bypass the normal coolant pump? The pump on the pre-heater is a non-interference pump i.e. water can flow through it when off.

I would try to put it in the bypass line going across just above thermostat 1

Can you not ask them for instructions to see if its a job you can tackle yourself ?

I guess they might have car specific instructions available

 

[Deleted member 33999]

Yeah, I have the installation instructions from the manufacturer. It basically describes adding it to the cooling loop, but recommends "checking the engine cooling system schematics from the vehicle manufacturer" which is kinda why I ended up posting.

I sent them details about the car, (engine size, type etc) and they assure me that it is safe to fit to the car, but couldn't give me any specific details. I know kenlowe are a renowned manufacturer with a good reputation, so I trust their info. I think there was a garage in Chorley that used to fit these systems, but I don't know if it's still there...

Either way, I'm much more informed about everything thanks to everyone's help on here!

 

[NetworkMan]

Wish I could advise but the diagram is so unclear and the cooling system is so complicated that I can't do that with any confidence.

Yes, I remember Kenlowe electric cooling fans from years ago and they always had a good reputation.

 

[Neil1]

do u need to hace a mains supply to powers this?