Hybrid TDI PD150

[Leon2012]

You're wrong John, you just don't know enough about TDI tuning to make the statements you are doing.

This is the set-up of a guy on tdiclub running circa.230 BHP with a PD150 turbo:

Nearly finished with my AHF rebuild:

PP764s
FMIC
Mapping
PD150 intake
Ported head
.5mm oversize valves (titanium, undercut)
3 angle valve seats
2.0l Pistons
H beam rods
PD130 oil cooler
block girdle
All bolts / studs ARP
Eur 6,000 spent on engine internals
+ a couple more thousand euros on "addons"

should be good (and very safe) for 230+ hp / 450nm

Another guy has:

VNT 17VB,@24psi ,,R520s,ported head,11mm pump,arp,headstuds,eurojet smic,id parts upgraded pipes,SBC stage 3, pd150 manifold, custom silicone t.i.p 2.5"downpipe and cat delete,racepipe,sender mod,pd lift pump

and is pushing 200 BHP


This is not based on generous dyno figures, but serious tuning and great custom remaps.

Btw: I said uprated SMIC, because AHF engines, etc, have SMIC as standard.

 

[Leon2012]

Those cars were also VE engined, and for a PD150 using R783 Bosio injector nozzles and a 3" downpipe and exhaust with no muffler, in conjuction with a decent tune/map from someone like Malone Tuning USA, then 200 genuine BHP would be easy I'd have thought, considering you can make 175-180 BHP from a standard generic Stage 1 map with standard injectors+exhaust.

 

[john_tdi]

Cheers. Coming from someone who's never done it. To someone who has some experience. Anyone can use google and claim to be an expert. Which seem to be the case, maybe not.

The quote didn't mention the turbo spec! You sure your talking about stock units not hybrids?

Your simply quoting from other sites not experience. Why spend 6000 euro on engine mods and stick with a stock 150 turbo!

I'm not here to argue believe it or not or to offend. Think what u like. Couldn't give a monkeys tbh. I'm not a fan of keyboard warriors so won't reply again.

 

[Leon2012]

John, do I need to put my hand in the fire to know it'll get burned?

Have you ever added R783 injectors, a down pipe + exhaust and a good custom remap to a PD150 and not got 200 BHP.... no I didn't think so, so you're speaking from no more experience than me.

Going from 150 to 200 BHP is not a massive leap, and I don't know why it's so ridiculous to think that is possible in your mind.

Both of those set-ups quoted are using standard PD150 turbos (model GT1749VB), I thought it was obvious we were talking about stock OEM PD150 turbos, and the guy who spent 6000 Euro said he was looking to upgrade his turbo v.soon.

 

[john_tdi]

dunno why im replying but hay ho..

I've added a down pipe etc and mapped a pd150 thanks. @ just over 190bhp. stock injectors (however they were nowhere near full capacity to require 783s)

I then had a vt2 from allards and mapped at rs tuning, again the injectors supplied plenty

Then I had a stage two hybrid from turbo dynamics mapped this time by p torque (the injectors where then near limits)

After messing about (long story) I fitted r783s for a short while.

Thats excluding the revo map, the various back box combos, various filters, different boost pipe setups, egr setups etc.

Its all down to physics. If the turbo cant flow, it cant flow. Doesnt matter how big the injectors are. The bottle neck of going over 200 is the turbo from what Ive seen. The bottle neck then shifts to the injectors once you start messing around with bigger turbos etc.

Theres some people who would argue that the hybrids cant flow much over 220 (but im not getting into that one).

So no... I know nothing.

Never touched turbos or injectors or even exhausts me.

think we will just have to agree to disagree, before someone gets hurt im not into slanging matches

 

[Leon2012]

dunno why im replying but hay ho..

I've added a down pipe etc and mapped a pd150 thanks. @ just over 190bhp. stock injectors (however they were nowhere near full capacity to require 783s)

I then had a vt2 from allards and mapped at rs tuning, again the injectors supplied plenty

Then I had a stage two hybrid from turbo dynamics mapped this time by p torque (the injectors where then near limits)

After messing about (long story) I fitted r783s for a short while.

Thats excluding the revo map, the various back box combos, various filters, different boost pipe setups, egr setups etc.

Its all down to physics. If the turbo cant flow, it cant flow. Doesnt matter how big the injectors are. The bottle neck of going over 200 is the turbo from what Ive seen. The bottle neck then shifts to the injectors once you start messing around with bigger turbos etc.

Theres some people who would argue that the hybrids cant flow much over 220 (but im not getting into that one).

So no... I know nothing.

Never touched turbos or injectors or even exhausts me.

think we will just have to agree to disagree, before someone gets hurt im not into slanging matches

John, the reason I made a point of posting in this thread was to debunk your incorrect statement that a stock PD150 turbo will, and I quote "Never go above 200 BHP", so that anyone seeking information from this forum will not believe that.

It was you who made the blasé statement in the first place, then you had a problem defending it.

Yes it's difficult to make over 200 BHP with a PD150 turbo, but it's been proven to do so, so never say never.

With your set-up, if you'd had a few other mods done and/or a better map from the USA, you would have made over 200 BHP yourself.

Also, I have read (from Bobby Singh) that to get a "proper" 200hp from pd 150 nozzles, you need to run 34 degree fuel duration. Did you do this?

What were your R783 nozzles calibrated to?

What was your boost PSI?

 

[Leon2012]

...

 

[john_tdi]

LOL

The reason you posted this was (like the other posts you do around the forum) was
a) try to be clever
b) feel the need to correct everyone when its not needed.

You seem to be the only one making a big fuss out of this also.

Your crazy to think a map from the good old usa would give me an instant 20 extra bhp over a UK map!

Have you seen how random their dyno whp figures are?

My R783 nozzles were fitted to injector boddies and setup by united diesel for god sake!

I'm not saying people haven't seen 200bhp on uk dynos. I'm saying you need to take it with a pinch of salt!

Fact is I've done various upgrades.
Fact is you haven't
Fact is you love quoting things from google and other forums, and you've not seen first hand.

Your post earlier #21 was a joke ***should be good (and very safe) for 230+ hp / 450nm***

Come on "should be"

Plus you say he's fitting a bigger turbo and theres no mention on that quote of turbo specs?

This is getting daft now. This is really my last post on the matter. Unlike some people I don't get a hard on for quarrelling.

 

[Leon2012]

a standard 150/160 turbo will never make a real 200bhp.

John, I was doing research for myself, found your incorrect statement and didn't want newbies to believe what you said if they came across the thread too.

You said you got over 190 BHP from a P Torque map, so I don't know where an "extra 20 BHP comes from", and I think that could be improved by having the best map possible from the States, where they are better at mapping than in the UK.

Say if you got low 190's and they just got 200, that's about a 7-8 BHP increase: I've heard bad things about P Torque, so wouldn't trust them to custom map my vehicle, but never about Malone Tuning, etc, only the best gains possible.

If they set-up your map perfectly and had it spiking at 29 psi and boosting at 24 psi, with your other mods such as down pipe + exhaust, then 200 BHP isn't out of reach...without it smoking like a chimney either!

Another thing is that all cars are slightly different - you could have exactly the same PD150 set-up and get different results...these cars are factory produced and not hand made.

The USA WHP figures are more accurate than our generalised BHP, but I can't get on with WHP properly as we've been brought up with BHP.

Are you saying that guy who spent 6000 Euro will not see more than 200 genuine BHP? He could have had it tested a week before with slightly fewer mods and get over 200, so then he estimated the final result with all the mods. Either way, with all those mods he would definately see at least 200 BHP.

He said it was on a stock VB turbo and that he was going to upgrade to a GTB turbo soon.

FYI, this is how you make 210 BHP at 4000 RPM with a stock VB turbo, at 29 psi boost spike:

With the stock VB you can make 1.85bar (27PSI) up to about 3500revs without exceeding the flow capability of compressor. Then you should reduce boost stepwise interpolation with revving higher, like 1.75bar @ 3750, 1.65 @ 4000 and so on...

For 210bhp @ 4000revs you need min. 76mg/h IQ, to burn this amount with lambda 1,2 (Like stock BPX, 160hp engine) you need at least 2bar (29PSI) with this turbo and especially turbine.

A turbo with higher flow capabilitys surtainly would need less boost to do this.

So saying 210hp with 1.7bar @ 4000revs with GT1749VB would mean something like nearby lambda 1*

( http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=246780&page=2 )

That calculation proves it is possible to go over 200 BHP with a stock VB.

If you can prove it can't go above 200 BHP then I'm all ears John, otherwise I think it's better if you just admit you were wrong, and we move on.

 

[john_tdi]

Didn't say I had 190 from a p torque u muppet. Learn to read before posting! And that quote is out of context. You really are a joke. No matter what I say you'll have an answer for anyway.

You have only supplied people saying "should be" and Calculations not real proof

Plus u need to be carefull before slagging tuners off!

I've got nothing to prove. I've tuned a p150 to various levels. You haven't have you?

This really is my last post on the matter. I dare say you'll have something to say as you are so experienced in pd150s! I'll unsubscribe to this now as this really really is daft people like you make forums horrible for others.

 

[Leon2012]

Didn't say I had 190 from a p torque u muppet. Learn to read before posting! And that quote is out of context. You really are a joke. No matter what I say you'll have an answer for anyway.

You have only supplied people saying "should be" and Calculations not real proof

Plus u need to be carefull before slagging tuners off!

I've got nothing to prove. I've tuned a p150 to various levels. You haven't have you?

This really is my last post on the matter. I dare say you'll have something to say as you are so experienced in pd150s! I'll unsubscribe to this now as this really really is daft people like you make forums horrible for others.

John, you can make all the personal attacks and threats you like, it doesn't bother me. What does bother me, and which does ruin forums, is people like you coming on and giving out poor quality, unsubstantiated information, which when challenged on, you spit your dummy out.

Newbies coming on for good quality information would read your drivel that a PD150 turbo will NEVER produce 200 BHP, and as you're an experienced member on here, they would believe it.

The truth is, 200 BHP is possible from this turbo, just that you're too small to admit it, despite evidence glaring in your face.

Have it your way and be in denial John, but the rest of us know that you were wrong to say what you did, and now your mistake has been corrected.