Ibiza 1.9 PD 130 - worth doing a remap?

[Ben Mason]

Hellooooo again!

I've been considering a remap for some time now and I got quoted £295 for a just over 23% increase in BHP from the standard 130 to 160 and torque from 310 to 405.

I first, due to my own stupidity tbh, was like WTF because I'm pretty sure I don't have 310 lbs/ft torque but after enquiring further (and feeling like an idiot - this whole remap thing is new to me, excuse my lack of knowledge) I found they quoted me in Newton Meters rather than lbs/ft.

So anyway, torque increase when converted is from 229 to 299 lbs/ft and BHP from 130 to 160.

Will my car be able to handle the increase without needing a new clutch? Just curious as after reading more into remaps I heard stories where the torque was increased to more than the clutch could handle and it starts to slip etc? I can't afford a new clutch, I'd rather just not get a remap instead of spending £800 on a new uprated clutch.

2003 Seat Ibiza 1.9TDi Sport (PD 130) - 128,100 on the clock.

 

[DScape]

It's hit or miss; I would imagine on that sorta mileage you'll be in a higher risk category of needing a new clutch (if it's still the original one), but it depends on how you drive it.

IMO; everyone that has a P1 remap should prepare themselves for needing a new clutch. I don't think anyone should be under any illusion. Don't get me wrong, a lot of people are lucky or careful but when I had mine done I saved for a Sachs performance clutch and got it bought months later.

I drove mine whilst it was slipping for a couple of months, and it only slipped when you booted it; wasn't a big deal but I wasn't making the most of the remap.

 

[Tiz]

im on 120k miles, original clutch, angel tuning map + lots of other bits done running slightly more power and torque still going fine on the original clutch been that way for 35,000 miles so far

 

[FR_MATT]

You just have to be careful and avoid mashing the pedal to the floor below 2000rpm a lot

 

[mymorph]

oh YES.

 

[Razzario]

Tbh id rather (and have) fit a clutch that's more than upto the job and not have to worry about it

 

[Chris3boro]

Please can someone, in a simple way, explain how flooring it below 2k etc causes wear to the clutch? I didnt think it could as long as you'd let the clutch up etc as it's no longer engaged, sorry for being a noob!

 

[abbotsmike]

Please can someone, in a simple way, explain how flooring it below 2k etc causes wear to the clutch? I didnt think it could as long as you'd let the clutch up etc as it's no longer engaged, sorry for being a noob!

The clutch is always 'engaged' that's how it transmits power. A clutch works by having 2 discs of friction material that are pressed together. When you push the pedal down, the discs are pulled apart. If you give the clutch a bootload of torque, such as below 2k rpm, then the friction between the 2 discs is overcome and the engine side one spins faster than the gearbox side. This is clutch slip, and much like rubbing sandpaper against wood, wears the discs down.

Basic explanation, but hopefully helpful!

 

[Chris3boro]

The clutch is always 'engaged' that's how it transmits power. A clutch works by having 2 discs of friction material that are pressed together. When you push the pedal down, the discs are pulled apart. If you give the clutch a bootload of torque, such as below 2k rpm, then the friction between the 2 discs is overcome and the engine side one spins faster than the gearbox side. This is clutch slip, and much like rubbing sandpaper against wood, wears the discs down.

Basic explanation, but hopefully helpful!

Thank you!

 

[FR_MATT]

As you see below the torque is on it's way down after 2000rpm. That's a read out for an unmodified PD130 and on the same day stage one cars were getting similar torque so before remapping I'd take it easy too! clutch is supposedly rated at about 320ftlbs

 

[Bondiblu]

Hellooooo again!

I've been considering a remap for some time now and I got quoted £295 for a just over 23% increase in BHP from the standard 130 to 160 and torque from 310 to 405.

I first, due to my own stupidity tbh, was like WTF because I'm pretty sure I don't have 310 lbs/ft torque but after enquiring further (and feeling like an idiot - this whole remap thing is new to me, excuse my lack of knowledge) I found they quoted me in Newton Meters rather than lbs/ft.

So anyway, torque increase when converted is from 229 to 299 lbs/ft and BHP from 130 to 160.

Will my car be able to handle the increase without needing a new clutch? Just curious as after reading more into remaps I heard stories where the torque was increased to more than the clutch could handle and it starts to slip etc? I can't afford a new clutch, I'd rather just not get a remap instead of spending £800 on a new uprated clutch.

2003 Seat Ibiza 1.9TDi Sport (PD 130) - 128,100 on the clock.

A decent tuner will be able to reduce torque further should you request it, and look at the Cupra TDI figures, stock 160BHP and 330 Nm. It's easy to get those figures out of the PD130, and they share the same clutch components, ASZ and BPX share the same injectors aswell, and the pd130 turbo should easily give the ~ 1.5Bar needed to burn the required amount of fuel. But as already said, the clutch is the weakest link in the chain, even on stock engines.

 

[Blanco92]

Surely if you can only boot it above 2000rpm... you're now out of the peak torque range, which defeats the point of booting it?

Surely you'd just be better off with a stronger clutch that can and does cope with the extra torque? I know they're pricey but if a job's worth doing you best do it right.

 

[abbotsmike]

Surely if you can only boot it above 2000rpm... you're now out of the peak torque range, which defeats the point of booting it?

Surely you'd just be better off with a stronger clutch that can and does cope with the extra torque? I know they're pricey but if a job's worth doing you best do it right.

Yes and no... It will have increased torque throughout the rev range, and increased power as the revs increase, but you still wont get to use the full power of the map without the clutch.

 

[Bondiblu]

Surely if you can only boot it above 2000rpm... you're now out of the peak torque range, which defeats the point of booting it?

Surely you'd just be better off with a stronger clutch that can and does cope with the extra torque? I know they're pricey but if a job's worth doing you best do it right.

I agree an uprated clutch is recommend, though regarding the torque, the torque can be lowered below 2000rpm or left at stock and fed in higher up the rev range. The smaller PD's peak earlier than the PD130/PD160's. It basically depends on the tuner, I've seen some terrible maps.

 

[Ben Mason]

Wow came back to the thread after a day or so and loads of helpful answers, most has been answered by other posters so thanks a lot guys for all your help! I was wondering myself about what exactly it is that makes a clutch 'slip'.

Regarding the cost of a new clutch, how much would a standard one be? So could I get away with buying a brand new standard clutch for (I don't know the costs, just guessing) £100 and then getting it remapped or should I invest in a uprated one for (guessing again) £800? If a new standard one is going to last say 30k miles before starting to slip I'd be happy as my mileage is only about 6000 a year.

 

[DScape]

Wow came back to the thread after a day or so and loads of helpful answers, most has been answered by other posters so thanks a lot guys for all your help! I was wondering myself about what exactly it is that makes a clutch 'slip'.

Regarding the cost of a new clutch, how much would a standard one be? So could I get away with buying a brand new standard clutch for (I don't know the costs, just guessing) £100 and then getting it remapped or should I invest in a uprated one for (guessing again) £800? If a new standard one is going to last say 30k miles before starting to slip I'd be happy as my mileage is only about 6000 a year.

I think the standard clutch is rated to 300ft/lbs (although don't quote me on this because I don't know where I got this from), but when you replace the clutch it's wise (or necessary) to replace the dual mass flywheel. The DMF alone is at least couple of hundred quid IIRC, but no idea about the standard clutch.

Parts for a performance clutch is around £900 (clutch plate/cover, DMF & release bearing) and fitting is 3-4 hours labour (mine was £150). It depends on whether you're planning to modify it any further.

Someone with more knowledge will come along; I'm possibly wrong with most of the things above (apart from the price of a performance clutch!).

 

[uksteffy]

ib a 130 sport, got it remapped 2 years ago when it had 67,000 on it. got it mapped as hard as it would go so its 180 at flywheel, 169.7 at wheels and 322lbs/ft. now has 117,000 and clutch has never gave any bother although it did **** the turbo but changed it to a 150 garret, and put a hole in the gearbox, and it ripped the top engine mount bracket away from the body of the car, but its running 100% now. only thing in my oppinion is just be aware that it will be hard on your gearbox, engine mounts and wishbones ect

 

[adam kelly]

I think the standard clutch is rated to 300ft/lbs (although don't quote me on this because I don't know where I got this from), but when you replace the clutch it's wise (or necessary) to replace the dual mass flywheel. The DMF alone is at least couple of hundred quid IIRC, but no idea about the standard clutch.

Parts for a performance clutch is around £900 (clutch plate/cover, DMF & release bearing) and fitting is 3-4 hours labour (mine was £150). It depends on whether you're planning to modify it any further.

Someone with more knowledge will come along; I'm possibly wrong with most of the things above (apart from the price of a performance clutch!).

I'd say your about right tbf mate my clutch is maxed out at 310lbft slips somtimes no not fussed big money to get it changed

Not seen you around for along time DScape

 

[Ben Mason]

ib a 130 sport, got it remapped 2 years ago when it had 67,000 on it. got it mapped as hard as it would go so its 180 at flywheel, 169.7 at wheels and 322lbs/ft. now has 117,000 and clutch has never gave any bother although it did **** the turbo but changed it to a 150 garret, and put a hole in the gearbox, and it ripped the top engine mount bracket away from the body of the car, but its running 100% now. only thing in my oppinion is just be aware that it will be hard on your gearbox, engine mounts and wishbones ect

Hmm, this and other comments make me think maybe it's not worth the hassle - or rather (to be honest) that if I'm going to get it done I should get it done properly with uprated clutch and other etc. Maybe I'll wait until I have a bit more money. Definitely something I want to get done though.

I know off topic in regards to what I originally asked, but I'm thinking of getting black tints all around but I don't know if it'll look too much on a black car? Or really nice?

Any opinions?

 

[touge]

Well, i would go for the remap and just do what the other guys have said and just be careful not to boot it from 2000RPM. It seems like a 'swings and roundabouts' situation when it comes to whether it will slip or not. You could have 30k miles of happy driving with a map on or it could last 100 miles, if it's the latter then whose to say it wasn't gonna happen anyway?

Get the map and be happy with it, albeit maybe a little more cautious with your right foot!