Ibiza sluggish starting issue 2008 1.4

[Jase]

Hi All,

This has raised its ugly head on my car (having read a load of posts about this!)

I have had 2 Bosch S3 batteries fitted in a year both have gone the way of replace battery based on midtronics intech test on battery, starter motor ok and alternator ok. Have checked interior lights and the boot light (did notice when I got car there was no boot light just the empty façade and the clip thought strange,maybe this could be the battery draining issue?).

Anyway car going in garage thurs for change of battery and fault investigation (non dealer).The delalers around here are really unhelpful and wish to fleece the cash.I ran a basic scan for error codes came up with cant remember exactly 028812 or something as I cleared it and it rubbed off my hand. Think it was not specific "intermittment power drop or something-sorry).

I have contacted a guy at Seat who supplied the car originally who has been helpful to me when I have asked for information about car. I asked about correct battery as on the car at present its a Bosch S3 56ah and he said correct battery OEM/Economy option but being 61ah/330a. Is my current battery up to the job ok its only 5ah?. I also asked if he knew of any known battery draining issues specific to my car =he said no, also no known software updates. He did say the only way forward would be to hook up to VW Diag, best way forward stick with dealer (as they would say!).

I have a feeling that when I pick it up thurs evening they will say its fine I willpay and drive away and at some point it will happen again (hopefully they will find issue!). I am living in Letchworth Herts and would ask if anyone local has VW Diag? I just need a next back up plan.

Any pointers would be welcomed.

Thanks

Jason

 

[RUM4MO]

The original battery would have been a 60AmpHour with 280DIN / 480EN CCA - the CCA ie cold cranking amps capability is as important as the storage capacity. So what is the CCA DIN and EN rating of that battery now fitted?

What exactly are the symptoms - do you find that if you use the car daily with roughly 10 miles each journeys that all is okay, but if you leave it for maybe 5 days, it is showing symptoms of a weak or heavily discharged battery?
If that describes your usage of that car and what you are finding, then it sounds like something is draining the battery when the car is not in use, and that something might be the BCM and it might have duff coding - if you have read all these threads on this sort of thing, you will probably have read my tales of woe.


Now, if that is what you think is wrong, then you MUST hand it into a SEAT dealership and let/get them to perform a battery drainage over night test on it, this will cost you an initial 1 hour's tech's time to check that there are no silly faults on that car that could be causing that, after it passes that, if it does, they will over the course of a couple of days carry out over night battery drainage tests, in total this should only cost another hour of tech's time, after maybe even passing that make sure that SEAT understand that you need them to check the world wide SEAT technical data base for reportings of this sort of thing and it should spit out that there was back in 2008/2009 a S/W patch for the BCM to resolve this, they should contact you to book the car back in and update the BCM S/W this should only cost you less than an hour of tech's time, the S/W patch comes free - as it should as it was a SEAT mess up! Failing to do what I have described will leave you with a car that you can't rely on to start when you need/want to use it.

There is by now very little memory within the motor trade including VW Group about this sort of thing and they will possibly even laugh at your suggestion - so if that is how things pan out - push the SEAT dealer hard to work for you and fix this problem.

Edit:- another annoying fact, if that is not the correct battery for that car, I'd think that replacing it could be the first thing they do as it makes sense, cutting costs and fitting a smaller/cheaper battery and using a cheaper independent garage will only cost you more long term with this sort of problem.

 

[Jase]

The original battery would have been a 60AmpHour with 280DIN / 480EN CCA - the CCA ie cold cranking amps capability is as important as the storage capacity. So what is the CCA DIN and EN rating of that battery now fitted?

What exactly are the symptoms - do you find that if you use the car daily with roughly 10 miles each journeys that all is okay, but if you leave it for maybe 5 days, it is showing symptoms of a weak or heavily discharged battery?
If that describes your usage of that car and what you are finding, then it sounds like something is draining the battery when the car is not in use, and that something might be the BCM and it might have duff coding - if you have read all these threads on this sort of thing, you will probably have read my tales of woe.


Now, if that is what you think is wrong, then you MUST hand it into a SEAT dealership and let/get them to perform a battery drainage over night test on it, this will cost you an initial 1 hour's tech's time to check that there are no silly faults on that car that could be causing that, after it passes that, if it does, they will over the course of a couple of days carry out over night battery drainage tests, in total this should only cost another hour of tech's time, after maybe even passing that make sure that SEAT understand that you need them to check the world wide SEAT technical data base for reportings of this sort of thing and it should spit out that there was back in 2008/2009 a S/W patch for the BCM to resolve this, they should contact you to book the car back in and update the BCM S/W this should only cost you less than an hour of tech's time, the S/W patch comes free - as it should as it was a SEAT mess up! Failing to do what I have described will leave you with a car that you can't rely on to start when you need/want to use it.

There is by now very little memory within the motor trade including VW Group about this sort of thing and they will possibly even laugh at your suggestion - so if that is how things pan out - push the SEAT dealer hard to work for you and fix this problem.

Edit:- another annoying fact, if that is not the correct battery for that car, I'd think that replacing it could be the first thing they do as it makes sense, cutting costs and fitting a smaller/cheaper battery and using a cheaper independent garage will only cost you more long term with this sort of problem.

 

[Jase]

Hi many thanks for the reply, really sounds like you understood my issue. And I can see in the post your tales of woe with your car.Many thanks for a clear pathway forward to hopefully resolve. Yes the car is 11years old but its only got 55k on clock, I try and wrap it in cotton wool, so its frustrating when you are thrown issues like this but hey ho!. Will take heed of your comments! thanks Jason

 

[Jase]

Hi again,

Just pulled out the original invoice on battery,the part number seems to relate to Eurocarparts Bosch s3 027/005 480A EN 56Ah paid £90.22 back in Jan 2018. So had this battery checked on 7/1/19 as starting issue result was VOLTS 12.24v,measured 305A EN RATING 480EN BATTERY GOOD RECHARGE. Gone out tonight to check 2nd battery looks like replaced with same type of battery result on test done Tuesday VOLTS 12.41V MEASURED 175A DIN RATING 480A DIN. So hope this covers CCA/DIN/EN. Wondering if it could be wrong battery or they lied about replacing it with a new one under warranty in Jan 2019,or new one has deteriorated? Grrrrrr!

 

[RUM4MO]

I have a CETEK battery tester, and it was this problem with my daughter's late 2009 Ibiza 1.4 16V 86PS that caused/prompted me to buy this tester - but they are handy to own and use now and again, especially as my wife's 2015 Polo has EFB battery and my 2010 Audi S4 has an AGM battery, so keeping an eye on how both of them "age" is useful as replacements will cost a lot more than a normal battery. My battery tester can not work out the rated capacity, I need to enter that value, which annoyingly changes in big steps so I always end up over quoting these batteries capacity - which only makes a difference if the capacity has dropped quite a bit and I will get a "replace battery" response along with measured values.

 

[dm222]

did I understood correctly? the car has problems starting?

https://forums.seatcupra.net/index.php?threads/n80-purge-valve-location.415856/

 

[RUM4MO]

OP, one thing that I've discovered probably in the past and again now when checking which battery is correct for my daughter's late 2009 Ibiza SC 1.4 16V 86PS, is any/all aftermarket battery sellers will offer you one that is too small so that the price is competitive, then maybe, if your lucky, offer an alternative which is much more expensive - what I've discovered using a couple of battery sellers is, that what you have been sold is the "too small - but very good price" version - now some people in an area of UK that does not suffer extremes in temperature in winter, and use their car daily for commutes of maybe 15+ miles, and keep their car in a garage at night, will probably get away with fitting that incorrect sized battery, most others will not for too long.

 

[Jase]

OP, one thing that I've discovered probably in the past and again now when checking which battery is correct for my daughter's late 2009 Ibiza SC 1.4 16V 86PS, is any/all aftermarket battery sellers will offer you one that is too small so that the price is competitive, then maybe, if your lucky, offer an alternative which is much more expensive - what I've discovered using a couple of battery sellers is, that what you have been sold is the "too small - but very good price" version - now some people in an area of UK that does not suffer extremes in temperature in winter, and use their car daily for commutes of maybe 15+ miles, and keep their car in a garage at night, will probably get away with fitting that incorrect sized battery, most others will not for too long.

Hi again, could it be that my battery is the incorrect size?, as checking it there seems to be ample space for a bigger battery in the battery sleeve/coat. There is a reply from dm222 who mentions about warm start issues being down to the N80 valve evaporative purge solenoid valve could this valve cause my battery drain/sluggish starts?,or as you stated before this is more to do with the BCM software patch. ThanksJason

 

[RUM4MO]

The sleeve/coat for the battery would be a "good" fit if it was the correct battery as in the same as what was fitted at the factory.

The issue that dm222 was suggesting would not cause the battery to drain, but does seem to make starting difficult in as much as you would need to crank the engine over for an extended period before it fired up - and that, it seems mainly happened in very warm, ie hotter than UK tends to get Summer temperatures.

Can you confirm that you are not just using this car for very short journeys, and also confirm or otherwise that this car, if left unused for maybe 5 days will show signs of having a now partially discharged battery - but of you use it daily for longer journeys it is okay?

 

[dm222]

Hi RUM4MO,
to me above 20ºC that would happen giving that the car was parked in the sun for like 2 hours. it is more related to the sun than the temperatures.
but if the battery is draining that's not the problem.

OP: can you start the car after like 5 times trying or do you need to recharge the battery to start the car? In the first case the N80 it's likely to be the problem (if it happens when the car was parked exposed to the sun), the second it's not.

 

[Jase]

The sleeve/coat for the battery would be a "good" fit if it was the correct battery as in the same as what was fitted at the factory.

The issue that dm222 was suggesting would not cause the battery to drain, but does seem to make starting difficult in as much as you would need to crank the engine over for an extended period before it fired up - and that, it seems mainly happened in very warm, ie hotter than UK tends to get Summer temperatures.

Can you confirm that you are not just using this car for very short journeys, and also confirm or otherwise that this car, if left unused for maybe 5 days will show signs of having a now partially discharged battery - but of you use it daily for longer journeys it is okay?

Hi,

I use the car during the week everyday 5.50am drive approx. 10miles car left in work car park till about 5pm drive car home. Used at weekend again short journeys but car ok. But you are right happened over xmas went away as you say 5 days came back battery flat. Jump started car only took one crank to fire up strange. Thanks Jason

 

[RUM4MO]

Jase, okay you have confirmed that the way that you use that car is not helping to cause this problem, so it does what my daughter's late 2009 Ibiza 1.4 SC used to do, and I could not find any reason for it in as much as a component/wiring failure - and no fault codes were being logged, so that was what convinced me that it could be the BCM S/W issue that a few people had suffered. This would go unnoticed if you used the car every day of the year - but if you did not use it for 5+ days, the battery would have discharged.

So, as far I can see, it is now back to following the route that I described earlier as no end of thinking/hoping is going to change anything.

 

[Jase]

Hi,

Thankyou so much for all your help and patience yes looks like its down the s/w patch route. Here we go with Seat dealership grrr!. I will let you know how things go. I suppose just swapping the ecu for another of the same year could maybe cure it but again you don't know if this patch has been done but that's another issue! Thanks jason

 

[RUM4MO]

Swopping your BCM for the same one from a similar aged car would work if you know exactly the coding currently in your BCM and its part number, then buy the exactly the same part number and recode it as necessary - but it would need to have already had that software patch.

I'd hope that after a SEAT dealer had heard you story and that idea that it could be a BCM software issue which other people have reported for a car of that age in motoring forum, that they could, if requested, work to your instruction and do as follows:- check car for stored fault codes if no codes relevant to this "car behaviour" have been logged, then raise a technical request from SEAT's data base, they should get an answer within a couple of days and hopefully they would be directed to a S/W patch for this known about issue. After that that dealer should contact you - mine didn't I had to doorstep them - though that all happened round about Christmas/New Year period, so I booked that car back in and they loaded the BCM S/W patch.

Always remember that not all SEAT VW or Skoda dealer's master techs were working when this issue first appeared back in maybe 2010, so they do need to take on what you are requesting even if they think it is a waste of time and/or "internet misinformation" - as they like to say about these issues it seems!

The key phrase when booking the car in is "unexplained battery discharging over a period of roughly 5 days if car left unused".