Information needed before purchasing 110, 130 or 150 TDi

[The Mann]

Hi all. Been a lurker here for a while in the past when I nearly bought an Ibiza. I come back seeking info on Leons as I am looking to purchase one possibly in the next half year.
Basically I've been out of the car loop for a while and not really sure about all the models etc. I would like someone to clarify for me at what year each one came along. I am definitely mostly interested in discussion on 110, 130 and 150 TDi models.
All I know is that there are 110, 130 and 150 TDis and that each number generally represents the bhp figure. Am I right in assuming that they are ALL 1.9ltr capacity TDi engines? What are the differences between the engines? Are they the same used in other VAG cars such as Golfs and Audis? How many miles do they go for and what things are there to consider when buying a diesel coming from a petrol background? I hear they are a little rackety? True? I am coming from a rubbish old car anyway so will probably feel more refined.

I am chosing a Leon as a medium sized family car that still packs some punch whilst delivering exceptional fuel economy. If anybody knows anything better on fuel that is as cheap and good looking then let me know!

Also, does a Cupra TDi exist and if so what is it referred to as? What ar ethe specs on it, or am I getting this confused with the TDi 150? I know the normal Cupra R is around 220bhp and petrol.

Im really looking to get one as cheap as possible so around 2002/2003. Any info on price differences between models etc would be massively helpful and info as to getting them re-mapped. I gather there is a general opinion that most people find with a remap on some of the models it puts too much extra stress on the clutch and needs uprating.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[The Mann]

Just remembered something else... what does all this PD and FR mean before and after the engine/model names. Is it the engine code that dictates the model of engine and hence its charateristics? i.e. Old Golf Mk2 used to have PB, KR engines etc.

 

[dpriestley]

The Cupra TDi does exist, as I picked one up last night. 150bhp, 3 1/2 year old for £11,000.

The FR is just a model name. Again, comes with the 150bhp diesel engine.

Very nice to drive. Quick without being scary.

 

[allh2k]

Hello

TDI range as follows

90 BHP and 110 BHP engines are the "old style" (Non PD) with only 5 gears and can be remapped to around 130 - 140. If looked after itll last a good 200k miles(ppl will argue more alot more). Im not sure when they stopped putting these in the MK1??

130 BHP and 150 BHP newer engines are PD (Pump Dusse) this means uprated injectors, another fuel pump, a sixth gear, bigger turbo and better MPGs oh and will prolly come with trip computer and cruise control they remapped upto 180 ish I think

Newer engines are all PD and are 100, 115 140 and 170?? not sure really tho might just be the MK2 leons

VW stopped using 90 and 110 in 2000

some1 will be along to correct me soon

 

[Leigh15]

As above - 90 & 110 are non PD

130 & 150 are PD

140 & 170 only in the mk2 Leon

The 150 engine is fitted in the Cupra which later was rebranded as the FR

They are all 1.9 litre turbo diesels - the difference in power is achieved through different turbos, injectors, timing and Intercoolers

 

[The Mann]

Thanks a lot for the above guys
So when you say the PD engines can re-map upto 180ish bhp. Is there any point in getting the 150 over the 130, if they are essentially the same and re-map to the same? Is the 150 just in a different state of tune to the 130 or are there significant differences?

 

[Leigh15]

The 150 Cupras/FR's are much better equipped and look a lot nicer too imo. Also, the intercooler setup on these models is a lot better and will benefit you more if you choose to up the power, not to mention the better brakes and suspension.

I'd go Cupra/FR if I had the choice

 

[JamesL]

nicely put.

Yes all the diesels in the leon range are 1.9 litre.
differences apart from the power is basically that things get uprated the higher you go (and the quicker )

Yes all the same engines are used AFAIK through the VAG range, with the exception of the 115 pd which was only available in the mk4 golf.

The diesels may be a little noisier on start up but the PD engines are quieter, although my 110 non-pd really isnt noisy at all, I was surprised at how quiet it was.

For all the specs information you are best off using the reviews section on somewhere like www.parkers.co.uk, as the spec seems to vary so much across the range. Even parkers I doubt will be completely honest. In general it seems to me that the older the car the more standard equipment came on it!

From what I have read it seems that the 130 and 150 will need an uprated clutch sooner or later, however the 110 (which a few people have mapped to around 147) seems to be ok with the standard clutch (Fair comment?? - I havent got mine mapped yet this is only what I've read)

I think the spec levels went:
S, SE, SX, Cupra, FR (??)
The FR I think replaced the cupra towards the end of its life, so probably a bit new for what you are looking at?

S being 90 ps non-pd(the german equivalent to bhp)
SE being 110 ps non-pd
SE also being 130 ps pd
cupra 150
FR 150

Ideally I personally would have liked to have got a 130, but the 110 came up and was too good to miss. The 150's have been rumoured to be more unreliable (particularly in the golf I think?), but the 130 can be mapped and also can use the uprated injectors etc from the 150 if you want more power. 130 seemed to me to be the best compromise between insurance (as I'm 18), power, and future-proof-ness (ie I can tune it fairly easily), however obviously your own needs wil be different to mine. Plus the 150 you get that cupra/fr badge

HTH, and its not a load of rubbish!!

 

[westoncraig]

if you want the economy, go for the 110 tdi...if you want the fun get the 150tdi....
i have the cupra 150 tdi and im getting 50mpg motorway driving, thats a mix of fast and normal cruising and blasts of power..
best car i have ever owned and i wouldnt change it for the world!

 

[The Mann]

Thanks for the editing whichever mod/admin did it Good job all round and better title as well. Thanks

 

[allh2k]

I would have to disagree with that economy comment, if its not about the whole package (insurance,tax..) my 110 struggles to get 500 from a tank(prolly nackered ) and I have read 130s 150s do this easily.

I have just done 450 miles to £62, 52 Litres (motorway/town driving) I think this is bad any one comment?

Also the remap is suppose to help your MPG's but whether the extra insurance is not massive should be ok.

PLUS! the rear seats are small !! if you have car seats for kids you will be kicked to death!

 

[westoncraig]

my 150 diesel does 450 miles to 45 quid...thats all i can seem to get in the tank lol

 

[allh2k]

is that the red line ? or when the lights comes on? and do you use the lil switch that lets the pressure out?

 

[westoncraig]

no venting or anything...from when the fuel light comes on i fill it up, never goes to really empty...30 miles left is the least ive filled from

 

[The Mann]

PLUS! the rear seats are small !! if you have car seats for kids you will be kicked to death!

Really!? It looks a fairly spacious hatchback to me. Ok thats giving me massive doubts now as yeah I would put kids in with car seats most days.

 

[Leigh15]

I carried adults in the back if the Leon with no problems at all - wouldn't say the seats are small

I'd say the 110 Leon getting 450 miles per tank is broken - I was getting that in the 1.4 petrol Leon (75 bhp=engine working very hard!!)

 

[allh2k]

The back seats are fine for adults its just that kids seats raise there legs to right height to give you a good kicking . I suppose it happens in every car tho.... Im just moaning about something that cant be helped

 

[Number86]

Get a 150. Remapped, you'll be right on the heels of an unsuspecting Cupra R!

 

[Mikael]

I've got a 110 (SX) 05 reg

Regarding fuel economy:
I get ~468-480 per tank (before the light comes on - don't know how much further I can drive and don't think I want to find out). That is with quite a lot of city driving with short (~20-30min) journeys.

I think that it is quite quiet...(with a nice turbo whistle )(doing ~70-80 is pleasant)

 

[Muttley]

As far as I know, all the 1.9 litre diesels share the same bottom end, with a five-main-bearing crankshaft and all plain bearings. TDI 90 has a conventional diesel distribution pump driven off the cambelt. This pump delivers the pressure needed for the injection: the ECU sets quantity via the quantity adjuster and timing by the commencement of injection valve. A simple turbocharger with a wastegate is used.

The TDI 110 is similar but uses a VNT turbo to get the charge pressure up at lower revs and to keep it stable right up to max rpm. This plus a different set of maps in the ECU gets +20 BHP

Here is a tech doc for TDI 90. TDI 110 similar but with VNT turbo (variable geometry turbine stator, no wastegate)

http://www.christiantena.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/motor/vag/tdi/tdi-technik-eng.pdf

In addition to the VNT turbo, the PD engines (TDI 130, 150, 160) have a different top end, head and cam.

Fuel is delivered at low pressure by a common rail system to individual Pumpe Duese (Unit Injector) units at each cylinder. These produce the injection pressure directly, and consist of a pump unit and an electrically controlled valve which sets both injection timing and quantity.

The pump units are driven from four extra cams on the camshaft via rocker arms with roller followers - the cams are very high-lift.

It is the health of these cams, cam followers and the PD units that requires a special grade of oil to be used for PD engines. If a lesser oil is used the cams wear out and your engine fails.

How PD works

http://www.tdiclub.nl/ftpacces/pdf-files/HowPDworks.pdf