Leon 1.9tdi help

[Shifty1978]

I purchased a 2003 Leon 1.9tdi at weekend and drove about 90miles to get it. Got comprehensive history from main dealer and had cam belt/water pump replaced about 10k ago ...mileage 62k now.

Anyway looking through history and the last main dealer service also had the tick sheet in the history. It showed "Turbo/Map fault?" but by customer authorisation had no so I presumed they did not get it checked out. This instantly put the frighteners on me, but decided to take it for a test drive anyway. Got out onto dual carriageway and was fine, seemed to have plenty of pull.

Ended up purchasing the car and drove home, car didnt miss a beat etc on motorway or normal roads.

Sunday and today it seems to hit a flat spot at about 3k revs, and this has occured in 3rd gear and fourth - but not every time.... seems to happen only when accelerating harder than normal. Moving up through gears "normally" doesnt bring the problem up.

I intended on buying an OBDII reader to just check - I had problems years ago with a Jag X-Type which was the MAF or MAP sensor I forget which, but am concerned its the turbo actuator sticking or something. However reading some threads I dont think an OBDII will help all that much, but I cant really afford the VAG software and lead at moment...

I note there is the shareware and lite version, would that assist with reading live codes?

I'm not mechanically minded so wont be able to do anything but the simplest of repairs but as I also have a VW in the household a cheapish tool would be of some use.

Would this be pointless :- ** sorry cannot post URL but its a VAG fault code reader **

** I have also contacted the non franchise dealer I bought the car from, but suspect he will not be of much use and given the distance its probably easier I try and resolve myself **

Any help much appreciated.

 

[BeartheBruce]

2003 Leon should be supported by the VCDS-Lite product. Once you buy a KKL lead, you use the VCDS-Lite software and you can run it in shareware mode. In shareware, Measuring value block groups up to group 025 are available to you. If the group you need is beyond group 025, then you would need to purchase a full license for VCDS-Lite - a cost of $99.

 

[Shifty1978]

Hi Bruce, thanks for the confirmation. The more reading I do I think its going to be a worthwhile investment but until payday will take a chance on the lite software.

When you mention value block groups what context is that in sorry? What does the 025 mean? Is that the numbering for fault codes?

 

[BeartheBruce]

Measuring Value Blocks are the means by which VAG engineers show live values. Your problem of finding if the turbo is bad will likely involve looking at live values. Modules in cars of your vintage can have up to 255 measuring value groups with 4 measuring blocks in each group.

Time to do your homework. You need to study about how VAG presents information to the user. You might start by looking at the the VCDS-Lite manual and the Measuring Values page: http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds-lite/manual/measblocks.html

 

[Shifty1978]

Well bought a lead today from your distributor in fforestfach swansea and downloaded free version. Tried it on my VW Sharan as the Leon currently has a JVC aftermarket stereo in it.... the instruction sheet with the lead mentioned that an aftermarket stereo if not wired correctly can blow the lead - and dont have a multimeter to do necc check at moment.

Anyway, need to do some more reading but it did pick up that my rear heated windscreen wasnt working with an open circuit - I presume that means its not earther rather than a fuse issue?

Think I will get full licenced software ASAP though.

 

[Muttley]

Open circuit means just that - it can't tell you where the break is. Could easily be a fuse, but then you can check them without any problem.

You bought from Gendan, who sold me a similar lead. Mine has been fine so far.

The free version of VCDS-Lite will let you read fault codes and reset them. I registered mine ($99 - less than the cost of one reading at the dealers) so that I could change the door locking (anti-hijack confused the hell out of my regular passengers) and turn the EGR down. Paid for itself already.

 

[Shifty1978]

Hi Muttley - yeah deffo going to buy it. Is that EGR Delete that I have heard mentioned? On my old Jag X Type I know people used to physically blank them off but is this purely a software thing? Is it for increased efficiency? Does it effect emissions?

Thanks

 

[Muttley]

Well, it depends on which version of the TDI engine you have. With registered VCDS Lite you can change parameters in the various modules, and one of these is EGR quantity - i.e. the amount of exhaust gas that is fed back to the inlet. You can't turn it off completely, but you can reduce it to almost nothing, and because you've reprogrammed the ECU, no EML comes up. Some later versions of the ECU software don't allow this reprogramming, which is loudly proclaimed as "for off-road use only".

EGR delete is usually taken as removing the EGR completely and substituting a straight-through pipe. Of necessity this also deletes the Anti-shudder valve, the butterfly that closes when you shut off the engine to choke it and stop it shuddering. Deleting this is not necessarily a good thing.

There's also the physical-disconnect option - on my old ASV TDI 110 I removed the electrical connector from the N18 valve, which stops the EGR from operating. It defaults to shut, which is where you want to keep it. Some people pull the vacuum pipe off from the EGR actuator, which has the same effect. Blank the vac pipe with a bung of some kind - most people use a small screw. Easy to reverse.

Physical removal or disabling of the EGR valve will usually cause the EML to light up. Older ECU's didn't monitor it (my TDI 110 was 2001 and didn't show an EML) but most will bring it up.

Reducing the EGR will effect NOx emissions, but outside of paranoid California opinions are very much divided about whether this is a problem or not. NOx considered on its own is an ozone-inhibitor: but from automobile engine sources it's never on its own, but is associated with hydrocarbon, CO and H2O emissions. The case for EGR is very far from clear-cut, but California mandates it and the rest of the world follows. I think they've just got a bias against diesels.

 

[Shifty1978]

Very useful info there, thanks.

How do I find out what engine I have I know it's the 110bhp 1.9tdi but keep hearing about different ECU chips and PD or CR engines. It's a 2003 version.

Also last question for now, with the lite version should the engine be running to throw up any live codes or will it find them anyway from the log I guess?

 

[Muttley]

A 1.9 TDI 110 in a Golf Mk.4 derivative car is a VE engine, from the German Verteiler, meaning distributor - these are traditional distributor pump engines with one high-pressure pump performing both pressurisation and distribution of the fuel to each of the injectors. It's a very dependable engine.

The TDI 90 is also a VE engine, the main difference is the turbocharger, which in the lower power engine is a wastegate type. The TDI 110 (and all the other TDI's) use a VNT turbo, which has variable geometry vanes in the turbine inlet (which is in the exhaust stream, of course) that control the rotational speed. These do a better job of extracting energy from the exhaust as they get the turbo up to speed at a lower point in the rev range.

The higher-powered 1.9 TDI's use PD injectors. Here the distributor pump is replaced by a single, relatively low pressure pump on the end of the camshaft feeding individual pump injectors on each cylinder. These are worked by a third set of lobes on the cam.

VW went to PD to escape the royalties on common-rail technology, and produced some very good engines, but environmental regulations have forced them to go CR with some of the latest 2.0 TDI engines. CR allows for multiple injection pulses per firing event, which PD can't do.

The ECU variations you've probably heard about are probably the different versions of the software installed to comply with the environmental regulations current in the build year. These get more restrictive as time goes by.

With VCDS the engine needs to be switched on so that the car's electrics are powered and you can communicate with the various control modules. Error codes are stored in the module's memories and will be available without having to start the engine running.

 

[Shifty1978]

I panicked last night as turned ignition on so dash on etc, plugged in lead and did a scan. I then turned car over, it started and then immediately died.

I guessed it was because OBD connected and an error did come up then re Immobiliser.

I then removed, started engine an re plugged it in and all was fine. Wasn't sure if it would pick up anything more with engine running and being revved rather than just ignition on. I think in the Lite software it is limited in anycase so no fancy graphs or much else.

 

[Muttley]

Brief summary of the differences between Shareware and registered VCDS lite and Full VCDS.

More detail.

All from Ross-Tech (the manufacturer) website.

 

[Seatmann]

110 is the ASV or AHF, you want to do a log of group 11 in measuring blocks, that'll show what's happening with the boost.
On the other hand just clean the turbo, it's just about always sticking vanes.

This is kind of what it looks like down the back of your engine

I'm using a mirror and head torch, you can see where the end of the screw driver is, that's the vnt lever. You want to get hold of that and see that it moves smoothly all the way to the stop, if it's crunchy and really hard to move then get some Mr Muscle oven cleaner. You just pop off the exhaust downpipe or egr pipe and fill the exhaust side of the turbo with the stuff. Leave it for a couple of hours to soak and every now and then give that lever a working, you should feel it get smoother as the crud loosens.
Once done bolt the exhaust back on and go for a spin.

Another common one is the vacuum pipes, get like 5 metres of 3mm silicone stuff off ebay and replace the lot, just do them one at a time so you don't get lost. The 3mm stretches over the 5mm fittings too.

 

[Shifty1978]

Cheers for that - need to invest in a mirror I think then. Have assumed its going to be that or a split pipe. I'm just a little apprehensive of doing mechanical work (albeit what appears fairly straight forward) as I'm a bit cack-handed with stuff.

 

[Shifty1978]

OK got around to removing JVC head unit incase it blew cable.

Did an autoscan and got 2 faults showing

Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-012-AGR.LBL
Controller: 038 906 012 FK
Component: 1,9l R4 EDC 0000SG 3357
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 06402
VCID: 5ECF1D7BC92F
VSSZZZ1MZ3R064751 SEZ7Z0B1824809
2 Faults Found:
17563 - Manifold Pressure Sensor (G71): Short to Plus
P1155 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17965 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
P1557 - 35-00 - Please Register/Activate
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ASR.LBL
Controller: 1C0 907 379 K
Component: ASR FRONT MK60 0103
Coding: 0021505
Shop #: WSC 00001
VCID: 321799CBED37
No fault code found.

From that will do a little research but is it showing a fault code with brakes as why display that if "no fault code found" or are the two faults the P1155 and P1557?

Thanks

 

[Shifty1978]

And are these codes worth deleting or will they return? Would this be linked to the sporadic throttle issues?

 

[BeartheBruce]

They appear to be intermittent codes. What that means is that at the time of the scan, the problem was not present. I would clear them and see if they return. If they do, then you need to go chase them.

Will these relate to throttle issue? What particular throttle issue are you having? Is the car stumbling and not producing proper power at times? Is that what you mean by a "Throttle" issue?

 

[Shifty1978]

Throttle issue as described at start of thread, poss sticky vanes etc or map sensor I guess. It hardly happens at all but haven't driven it and tried too boot it for a while as its the wife's car.

Will clear codes now and see how it goes tomorrow morning

 

[Seatmann]

The TDI 90 is also a VE engine, the main difference is the turbocharger, which in the lower power engine is a wastegate type. The TDI 110 (and all the other TDI's) use a VNT turbo, which has variable geometry vanes in the turbine inlet (which is in the exhaust stream, of course) that control the rotational speed. These do a better job of extracting energy from the exhaust as they get the turbo up to speed at a lower point in the rev range.

.

Not that I'm picking hairs Muttley but the ALH (which is a 90) has a vnt the same size as the 110 lol



That old code the P1557 is for overboost

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17965/P1557/005463

That could be caused by the turbo vanes sticking or it might just be a side effect of the other fault P1155

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17563/P1155/004437

I'd check all the connections for the boost pipes and maybe even try another map sensor. It's on the intercooler down at the right front.

 

[Muttley]

Seatmann wrote

Not that I'm picking hairs Muttley but the ALH (which is a 90) has a vnt the same size as the 110 lol​

To avoid confusing the issue I generalised. The ALH is a bit odd in any case - it's the last of the TDI 90's, and I think they ran out of wastegate turbos, or wanted to simplify production lines. I'm not sure if there are any differences between the hardware of the ALH and (say) ASV engines - are the injectors different? Otherwise the ALH is just an ASV with a lower power software map.

That old code the P1557 is for overboost - http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17965/P1557/005463

That could be caused by the turbo vanes sticking or it might just be a side effect of the other fault P1155 - http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17563/P1155/004437​

I'd certainly agree that the MAP sensor fault needs to be sorted first, as it's the MAP that detects overboost.

I'd check all the connections for the boost pipes and maybe even try another map sensor. It's on the intercooler down at the right front.​

Here's a picture of my old TDI 110 with the bumper off. The top of the intercooler is visible with the MAP sensor showing to the right of the wash bottle, next to the screenwash pump.

From inside the bonnet the sensor is down by the offside headlamp.