mbc fiited now cf are gone

[fourtwofive]

done a quick log today my cars running -4.5 timing now with mbc fitted

	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'004			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Voltage	Temperature	Temperature
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF	STAMP	 /min	 V	°C	°C
	163.42	1120	31.6	2.87	6.72	163.81	0	0	0	0	164.21	1120	13.72	93	15
	164.61	1160	70.7	7.79	18.89	165.01	0	0	0	0	165.41	1320	13.3	93	15
	165.81	1400	91.7	9.02	26.08	166.21	0	0	0	0	166.61	1560	13.79	93	15
	167.01	1680	105.3	10.25	35	167.41	0	0	0	0	167.81	1920	13.79	93	15
	168.32	2080	133.8	13.53	56.75	168.72	0	0	0	0	169.12	2360	13.37	93	15
	169.52	2520	176.7	18.04	88.72	169.92	0	0	0	0	170.32	2960	13.51	93	15
	170.72	3200	191.7	22.55	140.69	171.12	0	0	0	0	171.52	3760	13.72	93	14
	171.92	4160	191.7	22.96	177.81	172.32	0	0	0	3	172.72	4480	13.72	93	14
	173.12	4680	191.7	22.96	190.19	173.52	0	0	0	3	173.92	5000	13.58	93	14
	174.32	5240	191.7	22.55	202.81	174.72	0	0	0	3.8	175.12	5560	13.65	93	15
	175.52	5640	191.7	21.32	208.94	175.92	0	0	0	3.8	176.32	5920	13.44	92	15
	176.72	6000	183.5	21.32	210.44	177.12	0	0	0	3.8	177.52	6240	13.58	90	18
	177.92	6080	24.8	1.23	0	178.42	0	0	0	0	178.82	5760	13.72	89	15

 

[ibizacupra]

why would this be a surprise?? less boost now

 

[fourtwofive]

It's not a suprise I'm just happy
Should I add some timing?

 

[James.Judd.1]

I would add some timing in small increments whilst logging and keeping an eye on the corrections.
It can deffinately take some though.

 

[ibizacupra]

It's not a suprise I'm just happy
Should I add some timing?

lol

you turn the boost down because....... worried about torque yea?
adding timing will bump up torque...
so.....




nice to see your ait's now decent on the new fmic.. Deffo helping things compared to when I last saw it

 

[James.Judd.1]

Bill, surely adding some extra timing will be nowhere near as harsh as a big spike in boost?
I dont think it was because he was worried about the torque, as he has a built engine, I think it was more he didnt like the boost tailing off in the higher rpm's. And obviously by capping the spike it was allowing the turbo to hold onto boost for longer.

 

[ibizacupra]

Bill, surely adding some extra timing will be nowhere near as harsh as a big spike in boost?
I dont think it was because he was worried about the torque, as he has a built engine, I think it was more he didnt like the boost tailing off in the higher rpm's. And obviously by capping the spike it was allowing the turbo to hold onto boost for longer.

Consider this:
Cylinder pressures.. vs boost pressures...
2700psi vs 22psi, and 3 deg of timing can change cylinder pressure by >300psi

something to think on.
thats how I can lift my head and stretch raceware head studs on mine - too much timing, too high cylinder pressures, zero det @ same time.

......and his airflows top end look no different to before..

 

[fourtwofive]

you got it james im not scared of the boost spike. unfortunatly was giving it too much abuse and somthings leaking think its my ex mani. huge ticking sound on hard boost. god knows cars hay.
only holding 18psi but still.

added 1.5deg of timing 3-4cf apart from pot 4 which for some strange reason always pulls 2.5cf more than the rest.
james havent seen you posting much hows things going?

 

[fourtwofive]

Consider this:
Cylinder pressures.. vs boost pressures...
2700psi vs 22psi, and 3 deg of timing can change cylinder pressure by >300psi

something to think on.
thats how I can lift my head and stretch raceware head studs on mine - too much timing, too high cylinder pressures, zero det @ same time.

......and his airflows top end look no different to before..

interesting.
your right on the maf is flowing 210 which is not different from n75 controlled. so im not making any more power.
what would running the n75 inline with the mbc do or is it more my cars maxed out. it feels better mbc controlled becase you dont feel the boost drop hight end.

 

[James.Judd.1]

Consider this:
Cylinder pressures.. vs boost pressures...
2700psi vs 22psi, and 3 deg of timing can change cylinder pressure by >300psi

something to think on.
thats how I can lift my head and stretch raceware head studs on mine - too much timing, too high cylinder pressures, zero det @ same time.

......and his airflows top end look no different to before..

I understand that, but if your running a higher boost spike you are forcing more air into the cylinder which will give you a bigger explosion meaning even higher cylinder pressures.

That explanation could be easily miss understood as meaning by lowering the boost by 5psi you are only lowering cylinder pressures by the same amount.

I bet a few extra psi of boost can also raise cylinder pressures by a fair bit.

I doubt Joe will have any problems adding a few deg onto his setup.

What airflow was it pulling after you added some timing Joe?

 

[James.Judd.1]

you got it james im not scared of the boost spike. unfortunatly was giving it too much abuse and somthings leaking think its my ex mani. huge ticking sound on hard boost. god knows cars hay.
only holding 18psi but still.

added 1.5deg of timing 3-4cf apart from pot 4 which for some strange reason always pulls 2.5cf more than the rest.
james havent seen you posting much hows things going?

The OE inlet manfolds are proven to starve cylinder 4 of air.. this may be the problem.. could be many things though!

Yeh that does sound like exhaust manifold is blowing, hopefully its just a gasket rather than a cracked manifold.. if not its a good excuse to go and buy a bigger turbo

 

[fourtwofive]

Haha that's it my mani is cracked gt30 lol
Adding 1.5deg of timing
210 before
213 after

 

[James.Judd.1]

You got it Joe! hmm the manifold wont be helping with matters if it is blowing.
You need to invest in a wideband guage and an egt sensor really otherwise its a guessing game.

 

[fourtwofive]

Going to have a look at the blowing over the weekend and yer your right I need wide band

 

[joehirth]

Get a wideband and you'll never go back so handy.

Can you do a 003 with 020 & 002 with 031

 

[fourtwofive]

sorry havent had chance to do 03.002.04 for ya joe
got new logs of none leaking manifold it had come very loose over time. still need to lower cfs as it hit 6 on pot 1

	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'004			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Voltage	Temperature	Temperature
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	%	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF	STAMP	 /min	 V	°C	°C
															
	233.18	1640	40.6	3.69	13.11	233.67	0	0	0	0	232.78	1280	14.07	84	16
	234.47	1280	62.4	5.74	16.44	234.99	0	0	0	0	234.07	1360	13.86	84	17
	235.79	1320	76.7	6.97	20.75	236.19	0	0	0	0	235.39	1120	13.72	85	17
	236.98	1560	37.6	1.23	0.33	237.38	0	0	0	0	236.59	1600	14.07	85	16
	238.18	1360	70.7	6.56	20.31	238.68	0	0	0	0	237.78	1720	13.65	85	15
	239.48	1440	98.5	9.84	29.08	239.88	0	0	0	0	239.08	1320	13.37	85	16
	240.68	1760	111.3	11.48	38.81	241.08	0	0	0	0	240.28	1680	14	86	17
	241.88	2160	153.4	15.58	69.31	242.38	0	0	0	0	241.48	2040	14	86	17
	243.27	2840	191.7	21.32	119.81	243.67	0	3	0	0	242.78	2560	14	86	17
	244.47	3640	191.7	24.19	156.42	244.87	6	3	3	3	244.09	3400	13.93	87	17
	245.69	4400	191.7	23.78	189.42	246.09	6	2.3	3	3	245.27	4120	13.79	87	16
	246.89	5000	191.7	24.19	206.11	247.38	5.3	0.8	2.3	2.3	246.49	4800	14	87	17
	248.18	5560	191.7	22.14	210.69	248.58	3	0	0	0	247.78	5400	13.44	87	18
	249.48	6000	188	22.14	213.19	249.97	0.8	0	0	0	248.98	5840	13.72	87	18

 

[James.Judd.1]

Did you get the knock sensors correctly torqued up in the end Joe?

 

[ibizacupra]

I understand that, but if your running a higher boost spike you are forcing more air into the cylinder which will give you a bigger explosion meaning even higher cylinder pressures.

That explanation could be easily miss understood as meaning by lowering the boost by 5psi you are only lowering cylinder pressures by the same amount.

I bet a few extra psi of boost can also raise cylinder pressures by a fair bit.

I doubt Joe will have any problems adding a few deg onto his setup.

What airflow was it pulling after you added some timing Joe?

If you MIS-READ it that 5psi boost change will change cyl pressures by 5psi, you are deffo MISREADING IT - lol

timing will significantly increase cyl pressure, over boost in the realms of boost being discussed here. simple fact
BOTH boost and ign obviously contribute, as do temps etc etc etc, but the point I clearly may have failed to convey here is that Beware of dialing in timing and its effect on the damaging effect it can have..

 

[ibizacupra]

The OE inlet manfolds are proven to starve cylinder 4 of air.. this may be the problem.. could be many things though!

Yeh that does sound like exhaust manifold is blowing, hopefully its just a gasket rather than a cracked manifold.. if not its a good excuse to go and buy a bigger turbo

#4 Cylinder runs hottest
look at how/where the water flows

Both direction inlet manifolds, have '4 cyl often pulling more timing than the rest

 

[fourtwofive]

Did you get the knock sensors correctly torqued up in the end Joe?

I could not source a t-wrench that goes to 14 so I well nipped them up
Hope I haven't messed up here.