My engine rebuild

[lucifer666]

No update yet. Dropped it off last Monday so they have only had 3days , Tue wed thrus. Think its mostly prep work being done by taking the whole engine out. Then the block off. The engine machineist was on holiday this week anyway but will be back tomorrow so the major work will begin tomorrow.
I think because of Easter We are looking at an extra week for completion so 2 weeks from tomorrow. But may he done a few days earlier

 

[duzza90]

No update yet. Dropped it off last Monday so they have only had 3days , Tue wed thrus. Think its mostly prep work being done by taking the whole engine out. Then the block off. The engine machineist was on holiday this week anyway but will be back tomorrow so the major work will begin tomorrow.
I think because of Easter We are looking at an extra week for completion so 2 weeks from tomorrow. But may he done a few days earlier

Fingers crossed it all works perfectly when its done mate, very interested in the results

 

[lucifer666]

Cheers mate. In theory it will be a fantastic car. And the mods I have done already are good for a much more aggressive map.
Before I took it down I had a dyno for stage 2 revo, 3" decat, itg, twin intercooler and the curve was amazing. Unlike people with milltek the map was maximised from 5k to 6.5k, it was almost completely flat, it went from 225 to 230 to 225. And when you change gear you drop about 1.5k rpm so I have at least 225 at all times if I change at 6.5k. Think the map is just limiting power, aswell as torque,

Believe its down to the decat, massive restriction gone and faster spool up.

I expect a good increase in power throughout the rev range easpecially high up, obviously limiting peak power as before. Hopfully torque will remain below the limit, I'm 25lb/ft torque, under dsg limit so rather than switching to Apr, for the good torque figures, I'm going to stay revo.

 

[danwilko90]

Is it not better getting a custom map with your loba270 on dude?

 

[lucifer666]

Yeah I will be looking at the Apr map that's being developed just because the r&d has been 5months or something. Will run the build on standard turbo to begin with, then the loba so I can get dynos and there woulnt be bits of metal fllowing through directly after build. I will run with revo, won't be optimized but won't cause any problems. Then I will look at a delimited of dsg as torquebwill be aroundbthe limit. Then last the Apr.

 

[lucifer666]

Engine is out, stripped down, block is coming off today being prepared for rebore, which will be done by the end of the week and gas flowing can take place.

Should have pics of the old pistons and rods by next week too so I can see what they are like

Pace radiator will be fitted before the engine is put back in.

 

[lucifer666]

Little update. Rebore is done. Pistons and rods fitted. Gas flowing head was looked at, and was decided pointless. The standard head is very good anyway. Looking at valve springs now, just waiting for Evan from Apr to send details of what they are using on the fabia r&d car.

Only slight snag is they said the pistons rattle a little in the bore but were bored to the piston manufacture specs so it must be down to the way that they will expand after warm. Will mean a bit of piston slap with cold starts, will just idle her for 10min once starting from cold. Pace rad is being fitted to. Apparently it flows no better than stock, but it has larger capaicty so it will give benefits.

Once run in for 1k, and some oil changes, I will then be fitting new turbo

Pistons they took out were black and thick with carbon, no major chips in them around the rings.

Should be done by the end of the week

 

[ibizaracebrake]

People think you need strong valve springs, but as they take power to compress, you need the weakest you can get away with to stop the valves bouncing at the rev limit, to get the most power.

 

[vRSy]

People think you need strong valve springs, but as they take power to compress, you need the weakest you can get away with to stop the valves bouncing at the rev limit, to get the most power.

Not true. One of the upgrades that come with the likes of ferrara valve trains required for raising the rev limits and strengthening the valve train is stiffer valve springs. Its needed for most stage 4 setups and beyond.

On the 2.0TSI there was a batch of valve springs that were deemed to weak and caused misfires on the higher tuned K04 engines, these were changed to a stiffer spring set and the problem solved. i now quite a few people who had to have it done. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...UC_but2-7OxW2SYUQ&sig2=Ogs1gzfheWVcRzo9rg754w

FWIW, VW Motorsport were the ones who said if you want power fromthe 1.4TSi then valve springs needed to be done. Hence why APR have started looking into it after that advice.

iirc weak springs suffer a symptom caled valve float and it causes high RPM misfires

edit

When an internal combustion engine experiences valve float, the lifters are not following the camshaft profile properly. This can be caused by many factors, with the most common being poor or weak valve springs. During valve float, the valves in the cylinder heads are not closing completely and cause the engine to misfire and lose power. Valve float can result in piston, valve and camshaft damage. Extended periods of valve float can lead to catastrophic engine failure, including a blown engine.

The camshaft has been called the brain of an internal combustion engine, and the specific grind or profile of the camshaft determines the power output of the engine as well as the power curve. As the camshaft turns inside of the engine, the lifters ride on the cam lobes and use push rods to operate the rocker arms. The rocker arms push on the valve stem tips and open and close the valves to allow an air/fuel mixture into the combustion chamber and let the exhaust out. Powerful springs attached to the valve stems are the only method of keeping the valves closed.

Virtually non-occurring in everyday street-driven vehicles, valve float is typically experienced in high-revving racing engines where sustained engine speeds can be near the rev limits of the engine. Many engine builders use a rev kit to eliminate valve float in the engine. This is nothing more than additional springs and a plate mounted beneath the cylinder heads that applies added pressure to the lifters to keep them pushed down onto the camshaft lobes. The downside of the rev kit is that it requires several horsepower to compress the extra springs and robs the engine of critical power.

 

[Stevoz03]

So stiffer valve springs could solve misfiring issues? Surely VW would make them good enough as even standard engines have high RPM misfires?

 

[lucifer666]

this is aimed at vrsy, shark performance are currently working on a dsg7 map for a golf dsg, single charged fitted with loba.

Currently they can only achieve 310 Nm because of dsg slippage, the dsg can handle more but slippage is the first line of defence so to speak before safemode. I have read a number of posts quoting that vw have said the limit to be 350Nm. Now thats not so say the dsg dosent cut power below that number.

Hurdy with water meth and loba was limited to 325Nm'ish after all his mods. Mine seems to hit only 310 and I have had the problem with the dsg short shifting at times which is a symptom of dsg not liking the torqe level. (obviously different dynos give varying result)

So even if the dsg is stated as 350, its easily possible that once torque is read at that level or even slightly less, clutch will slip reducing the recorded value on a dyno by up to 30Nm. Apparently according to shark, with your car vrsy, they managed to get torque up to 360Nm affefeer they overcame the dsg limit; that was with a mild stage 2 car was it not?

Sy, I know I've already asked you but do you know ANYTHING about the springs used on yours? Are they fitted? Solving the problem?

Also something else was discussed regarding boost levels.............

.....Correct me if im wrong but your car was able to run 1.55bar boost before problems with misfiing, a bloke in cyprus running a MUCH bigger turbo is running over 300bhp with 1.55bar.
I was chatting to the bloke who has his car at shark performance earlyer. He was saying that the map sensors can only read to 1.55 bar, he has uprated his to ones that can read to 3bar. All thats required is to adjust the voltage levels through the diagnostics port and they work fine.

Could it be the case that when boost is increased above 1.55bar that the ecu still thinks you have 1.55 bar and thus, due to the demand fuel system(ie fuel increased to match boost/air) you are essentially running lean; and hence causing misfiring.

I do agree, your spring theory makes sense for this car and people I have spoken to have agreed that it is a potential solution. The only thing that they say is its very hard unless watched operating on a bench taking footage with a camera and watching back frame by frame, to know if the springs are up to the job. Its the rate of rebound and compression is what is difficult to mimic, rather than the bhp/boost level they can take.

I appreciate any help,

 

[vRSy]

So stiffer valve springs could solve misfiring issues? Surely VW would make them good enough as even standard engines have high RPM misfires?

Were not talking of normal misfires. Im talking of a misfire that only occurs at 6400rpm when running high boost.

This wont be experienced on a standard turbo as its above the safe working threshold of the stock turbo.

This is what has been limiting the boost we can run on my LO270 turbo.

The other misfires are casued by poor spark. Mine suffers no misfires other than this ghigh boost one, hence why im still only in a low boost setup.

 

[vRSy]

this is aimed at vrsy, shark performance are currently working on a dsg7 map for a golf dsg, single charged fitted with loba.

Currently they can only achieve 310 Nm because of dsg slippage, the dsg can handle more but slippage is the first line of defence so to speak before safemode. I have read a number of posts quoting that vw have said the limit to be 350Nm. Now thats not so say the dsg dosent cut power below that number.

You dont know how hard he has been on his clutch, or if his DSG is in fact working properly. Mine never cut power with the shark map and that was running over 250lbft so i highly doubt its the software with his car.

Hurdy with water meth and loba was limited to 325Nm'ish after all his mods. Mine seems to hit only 310 and I have had the problem with the dsg short shifting at times which is a symptom of dsg not liking the torqe level. (obviously different dynos give varying result)

This, i think is a software problem, but in all hnesty its above my knowledge. i can only go off what Im told by the tuners I have used.

So even if the dsg is stated as 350, its easily possible that once torque is read at that level or even slightly less, clutch will slip reducing the recorded value on a dyno by up to 30Nm. Apparently according to shark, with your car vrsy, they managed to get torque up to 360Nm affefeer they overcame the dsg limit; that was with a mild stage 2 car was it not?

they never told me, but i dont see why not. Jabbasport told me that my DSG showd 3 flashes on it, so it must have been done by them.

Sy, I know I've already asked you but do you know ANYTHING about the springs used on yours? Are they fitted? Solving the problem?

Nope. Personally the ratings or specs of the valve springs mean nothing to me. Thats something APR are dealing with, and I doubt they will release that info publically either as it will give them the competitive edge over the competition. I dont even know if they have been fitted yet. Last I heard they were being manufactured. I literally haven't spoke to APR about my car for over a month now.

Also something else was discussed regarding boost levels.............

.....Correct me if im wrong but your car was able to run 1.55bar boost before problems with misfiing, a bloke in cyprus running a MUCH bigger turbo is running over 300bhp with 1.55bar.
I was chatting to the bloke who has his car at shark performance earlyer. He was saying that the map sensors can only read to 1.55 bar, he has uprated his to ones that can read to 3bar. All thats required is to adjust the voltage levels through the diagnostics port and they work fine.

Could it be the case that when boost is increased above 1.55bar that the ecu still thinks you have 1.55 bar and thus, due to the demand fuel system(ie fuel increased to match boost/air) you are essentially running lean; and hence causing misfiring.

My car runs 1.44 Bar iirc, any higher and the high rev misfire begins to occur and progressively gets worse the more boost applied. APR have mentioned the Map sensors being limited a long while back and talked about rewriting the software to allow for 3 Bar sensors. No idea if they have done it though.

In all honesty, im just leaving it to APR to deal with. They dont need me questioning their everymove. I have every confidence that they will get this issue sorted.
Sy

 

[lucifer666]

thats understandable, many thanks. Thought your car would be near completion by now. Im going to go ahead with the sensor upgrade i think, pretty simple job actually. I think I will also wait for APRs map to be finished before I go ahead with more aggressive mapping, thats alot of r&d gone into that car mate, you better have a run down the strip before you get rid. Hopfully regarding the springs, they will be able to get hold of a set since Evan is mates with the project supervisor at tsr, dont even want to know their spec or make, aslong as they work. Would be interesting to see if my slightly higher capacity pistons made any improvement to the misfiring.

 

[vRSy]

I now pretty much live as far north in the UK as its possible to get, so a 1/4 mile run is going to be challenging now. I think APR will be taking it on the strip though to test it.

 

[lucifer666]

Spring upgrades have been identified, they are off another vw, not sure what yet. I know APR were contacted and the tuner who does the tsr maps, which have also mapped the big bhp 1.4tsi engines in europe and greese.

I know the ones in europe were supertec, they believed a custom ecu tune was needed for them so im assuming they are for BIG power. The vw ones must be what apr are using and I hope can be run on revo stage 2 mapping until I have a dsg map and then possibly apr map if i feel i still want more power. At the very least Im going to switch tune to apr stage 2

 

[Beazy]

I now pretty much live as far north in the UK as its possible to get, so a 1/4 mile run is going to be challenging now. I think APR will be taking it on the strip though to test it.

Can highly recommend not attending Crail then

 

[lucifer666]

Everything is getting put back together now and it will be done

Next steps,

1. Run in
2. Oil
3. Dyno
4. Dsg Map+Dyno
5. Loba fitting
6. Dyno for final results

 

[lucifer666]

2 days to go......

 

[Matt17121991]

2 days to go......

Exciting times!!