Need help curing an engine ticking noise

[glangri2]

I have got a very noticeable ticking/tapping noise coming from the engine of my 2003 LCR, but I have now reached the end of my diagnostic capability. If any one can give me any pointers of what to look at next it would be greatly appreciated.

Symptoms;
1. The noise sounds like it is coming from under the cam cover, at the chain end rather than the belt end.
2. The noise is definitely rev related - The higher the revs the faster the ticks/taps.
3. The noise came on quite suddenly, rather than got worse over time.

Most people that have heard it have said it sounds like tappets/followers.

Now through searching online, and throughout this forum I have I have uncovered that there is is a common problem with oil sludge. Unfortunately, over the last 4 weekends I have done all of the jobs that would normally fix the issue, and more..................... Help

I have-

1. Changed the Oil & Filter,
2. Dropped the sump, cleaned it out, replaced the Oil Pick Up Pipe AND the Oil Pump,
3. Taken all 20 Hydraulic followers out, fully stripped down/Cleaned/rebuilt them,
4. Replaced the Timing Belt and Tensioner,
5. Replace the Cam Chain Tensioner,
6. Unplugged the Oil Pressure switch to make sure it was working - It was.
7. Removed the Oil Pressure Switch at the Filter, and put a manual Gauge on it - It read 4 bar.
8. Run the engine without the accessory belt - to eliminate the AC Compressor & Alternator from the equation - The noise was still there.

It really does sound like the problem is lack of oil in the top of the cylinder head, but I am confused as to what could be causing it.
When the oil pump was off, I looked up the gallery in the block and it was nice and clean. I could see clearly up to the the point it goes off in another direction.

Does anyone know if there are any pipes or galleries that could reduce the oil flow, but which wouldn't set off any of the warning signs?

Could I be going in completely the wrong direction and have a problem somewhere else?

What else could I check?

Help anyone ! !

Gary

 

[RICKY3]

Cam chain worn?


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[glangri2]

Possibly. the car has done 116K miles. Oil changes have all been done on time, and in taking everything else apart it does all look pretty good in there.
The Cam chain looked OK, but I must admit I haven't checked it (Not sure how).

I wouldn't have though that it would wear out in that mileage !

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Bret]

carbon cannister clicks like fook

 

[grahams81]

Well you've done all the obvious stuff already.... I know you've stripped and cleaned the followers but there is a test to indicate if there knackered.
You run the engine upto temp... Remove the cam cover and check for clearance between the camshafts and followers (only the valves that are closed ie not on the lobes)... Turn the engine (by crankshaft bolt) and check the others that were previously pushed down by the camshafts.
I can't remember the max clearance, but if its too big it indicates a knackered lifter... Which will tap when running.

Couple of questions for you -

Did the noise appear after a oil change ? Or any other work ?
Was the old pickup pick blocked with sludge ?
What grade oil you running ?
Worse / better when hot or cold ?
Is there signs of oil under the camcover ? If not maybe remove a camshaft bearing cam and inspect.
You say oil pressure is 4bar.... 4bar when.... What is the oil pressure when its idleing ? Also check when hot & cold.
Just FYI there are check valves / pressure limiters in the oil filter housing (the removable part that bolts to the engine block) maybe one is stuck.

As already said maybe the camshaft timing chain is worn.

Good luck.

 

[glangri2]

Did the noise appear after a oil change ? Or any other work ?

I did a flush, oil & filter change back in March. It had run fune since then.

Was the old pickup pick blocked with sludge ?.

It was a bit clogged up, but not too bad. Oil passed through it but it had caught some debris.

What grade oil you running ?.

I think that it is 5W/40 Fully Synthetic. I have been using Mobil 1 ESP Fully Synth for the last 5 years, but this time have used a Quantum one recommended by my local VW independent (both oils are the same grade and FS).

Worse / better when hot or cold ?.

Very little difference. It seems ok on initial start up, but then the noise occurs withig 15 seconds or so.

Is there signs of oil under the camcover ?.

Yep, there is oil there, but it is all so clean that it is hard to tell whether it is enough !

You say oil pressure is 4bar.... 4bar when.... What is the oil pressure when its idleing ? Also check when hot & cold..

4 bar when cold
5 bar under acceleration
2.5 bar at idle once warm

Looking on line, I think that that is about right.

Just FYI there are check valves / pressure limiters in the oil filter housing (the removable part that bolts to the engine block) maybe one is stuck. .

Definitely worth a look.



I took the car in to a mates garage last night. 2 of the mechanics listened to it and agreed that it sounded like one of the Hydraulic Followers.

Next step is to warm it up, remove the cam cover, check the valve clearances (All should be Zero, if the engine is still warm from being run). If I turn the engine over, I should see oil flowing in, and squirting out of the Chain Tensioner.

If the clearances are OK, and the oil flow is low, I am probably looking at a blocked oil way in the head, so it will be a case of taking it of for a strip down and clean.