New to DSG - advice?

Kothaex

Active Member
Sep 24, 2018
137
11
Hi all,

I'm taking delivery of my DSG Cupra 300 tomorrow... WOOOO

I'm coming from a Cupra 280 manual

I just had a couple of quick questions then the floor is open to general advice?

So firstly:
1. This will be the 6spd wet clutch, right? What are the implications of this Vs the 7spd dry clutch in later models?

2. I understand some do's and don't's of DSGs, specifically for some DSG cars I heard you're not meant to brake and let the car hold itself on a hill as it's much like hillholding with your clutch in a manual.

Is that the case here, or does hill hold assist kick in and hold the brakes on the hill for you so the clutch can decouple?

Other than that, any general advice? Literally never owned an auto before.

Thanks!
 

Mtailor

Active Member
Aug 9, 2018
191
104
London
Taken some tips from various sources...

1. I believe the later 7 speed is a wet clutch on Cupra and higher powered engines - so no real difference other than better cruising economy.
2. Driving a car with a DSG gearbox isn’t really any different to driving most other automatics - you’ll need to put your foot on the brake to switch between neutral, park, reverse or drive. Releasing the brake in the reverse or drive will mean the car starts creeping backwards or forwards respectively - this is deliberate, as it makes low-speed manoeuvring easier. On later facelift cars there was an electronic 'hill hold' feature.

The key things to remember are around taking off from a standing start, driving slowly up a hill or inching forwards in traffic. All these things can cause wear and tear on the clutch (usually the one engaging first gear) in the transmission, whereas a conventional automatic has a torque convertor which is much better able to handle slow speed crawling.

What you need to remember when driving a DSG is that when you’re moving from a standing start the clutch will have disengaged and placed the transmission into neutral. Then, as you move from the brake to the throttle the transmission is still in neutral and will then engage once the throttle has been applied and, so, just like you would in a conventional manual you can get a slight jerk as first gear engages.

Another issue is when in stop-start traffic and you’re tending to ride the brakes as you inch forwards. The problem here is that because there’s very little speed, the first-gear clutch is never going to be fully engaged and so will be slipping and while the transmission is robust enough to handle these situations, it’s never a great idea to overly stress your car. So, as the owner of a car with a DSG, my advice is to let a gap build ahead of you and then step off the brake and onto the throttle and drive to the next stop, rather than constantly inching forward.

IMPORTANT POINT - a common misconception is that the rules that govern the shifting behavior of the DSG are NOT adaptive. Lets be clear about this. The DSG does NOT change the rules governing shifting behavior based on your driving style - It doesn't "Learn" those - These were hard coded sets of rules established by the engineers of the DSG software. It does dynamically change its operating parameters internally to account for clutch wear, etc - But none of that effects the rules for deciding gear changes - these are STATICALLY PROGRAMMED. This means you can reliably use what you know to influence the decision it makes by influencing some of the factors it takes into account. And that 2 drivers with the same DSG software in the same exact scenario will have the same outcome no matter what their previous driving "Style".
 

Tonezz

Active Member
Jan 12, 2011
1,029
65
Preston
As above the new 7 speed is also wet, the dry 7 speed is only on the smaller engine lesser torque cars.

And no just hold your foot on the brake on a hill, then hill hold activates when you lift your foot off the brake.

Obviously if you are stopped for a long time you can put the gearbox in P and put your handbrake on though.
 
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McJamweasel

Active Member
Sep 10, 2020
5
2
Just to add to what Mtailor stays about traffic, in my current 1.4 dsg if I'm in slow traffic then I knock it into manual so that it holds 1st for longer. That way the clutch fully engages at a lower speed than it it auto shifts into 2nd.
 

TomsLeon

Active Member
Sep 26, 2020
42
3
I'm also new to DSG so watching this thread with interest. Have driven a couple of conventional torque converter autos but nothing semi-auto at all.

How do you do steep hill starts with DSG? Press the throttle before lifting the brake with your left foot? Any chance of stalling or rolling back? The ones I'm looking at will have hill-hold, auto-hold and electronic handbrake...which should make things easier so I'm probably overthinking this lol.

With regards to traffic lights, can I come to a full stop, press the brake hard so auto-hold triggers and then release the brake, but remain in D? Or will it try to creep by doing that? Would rather let off the footbrake to avoid dazzling cars behind but not sure if I'd need to return to N to do that?

Also how does stop/start work with DSG in these? Does the engine only restart once you press the throttle or does it start when you lift the brake?

I've had SS in 2 manuals and it doesn't bother me at all as I can just hold the clutch down if the lights have changed but the cars ahead don't move off quickly enough. In that same scenario I'm wondering if the engine will cut for literally half a second because I've had to come to a brief complete stop? I know SS can be turned off, but I'm happy to leave it on as long as it doesn't interfere with normal driving.
 

Maypack

Ambassador for Cumberland Sausage
Apr 20, 2014
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This is worth a read too



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

McJamweasel

Active Member
Sep 10, 2020
5
2
How do you do steep hill starts with DSG? Press the throttle before lifting the brake with your left foot? Any chance of stalling or rolling back?
Off the brake, onto the gas. No need to left foot brake, no danger of rolling back or stalling. When you start to come off the brake the dsg takes over and wants to start moving.

With regards to traffic lights, can I come to a full stop, press the brake hard so auto-hold triggers and then release the brake, but remain in D? Or will it try to creep by doing that? Would rather let off the footbrake to avoid dazzling cars behind but not sure if I'd need to return to N to do that?
Stick it in N, P or stay on the brake.

Also how does stop/start work with DSG in these? Does the engine only restart once you press the throttle or does it start when you lift the brake?

I've had SS in 2 manuals and it doesn't bother me at all as I can just hold the clutch down if the lights have changed but the cars ahead don't move off quickly enough. In that same scenario I'm wondering if the engine will cut for literally half a second because I've had to come to a brief complete stop? I know SS can be turned off, but I'm happy to leave it on as long as it doesn't interfere with normal driving.
On mine it cuts the engine just before you stop, depending on how hard you're braking. As you start to come off the brake it starts back up. You can balance it so that you're stopped but not braking enough for the stop start to activate. I often deactivate it for junctions and roundabouts so that it doesn't interfere with pulling away. When getting ready to move off I usually release the brake a bit in advance so that the engine starts and settles down before I actually move.
 
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Tonezz

Active Member
Jan 12, 2011
1,029
65
Preston
Never switch the gearbox into neutral while you are sat in traffic, I'm sure the manual specifys not to and also there is no reason to.

Holding your foot on the brake is all you need to do, don't touch anything else. If you are waiting for an extended period of time just put it in P and put your handbrake on.

Hill Hold is automatic, as soon as you lift off the brake the car will stay there for a bit while you move your foot to the accelerator.

SS as above activates just as you come to a stop, I find it very stuttery though and you can confuse it in traffic when you keep moving a little bit. I generally turn it off on the dash and when I'm sat in a que of traffic I'll manually turn it back on as and when.
 
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black_sheep

Active Member
Mar 10, 2013
531
221
Or... If you have DSG, adaptive cruise and traffic jam assist, lane departure assist you can let the car drive itself!
 
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jt20vt

Active Member
Sep 17, 2010
127
17
Just to add when the car puts the handbrake on with auto hill hold you will see the P (park symbol) shown in green on the dash. You can take your foot off the brake. Then to move away just press accelerator you will notice a slight delay as it reacts and you move forward.
 
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TomsLeon

Active Member
Sep 26, 2020
42
3
Never switch the gearbox into neutral while you are sat in traffic, I'm sure the manual specifys not to and also there is no reason to.

Holding your foot on the brake is all you need to do, don't touch anything else. If you are waiting for an extended period of time just put it in P and put your handbrake on.
That's interesting, when would you use N out of interest? I can't see any need for it as well as P if it's not to be used in traffic?

I don't have the car yet so don't have a handbook to check.
 

TomsLeon

Active Member
Sep 26, 2020
42
3
Or... If you have DSG, adaptive cruise and traffic jam assist, lane departure assist you can let the car drive itself!
That would be nice but seems to be a pretty rare option, at least on the FR's in my budget. I assume it isn't an easy retrofit either? Looks like the radar is in the bumper for active city stop (or whatever Seat call it) so I thought adaptive cruise might be possible, but the camera for lane departure would require a whole different windscreen I guess.

Have you got traffic jam assist? Do you trust it lol?


Just to add when the car puts the handbrake on with auto hill hold you will see the P (park symbol) shown in green on the dash. You can take your foot off the brake. Then to move away just press accelerator you will notice a slight delay as it reacts and you move forward.
Ah ok, so you can stay in D but let off the brake once the auto-hold has triggered?

Auto hold and hill hold are different things which might have caused the confusion in an earlier post. Hill hold holds the footbrake for about 3 seconds and only on hills. Auto hold should hold the handbrake indefinitely on any gradient. I've not had auto hold yet, but have had hill hold on the last couple of cars so am used to that. I find it can be a pain when parallel parking on a hill as it won't let me slip the clutch for a soft bite, instead lurching towards other cars when it finally gets enough bite to release...I won't be parking the new car in tight spaces though so that shouldn't be a problem any more lol.
 

jt20vt

Active Member
Sep 17, 2010
127
17
Yes you can stay in D, the car will sort itself out and yes let go of the brake pedal until you need to move off. Just to note the brake lights will show on whilst it holds the brake for you to show other motorists you have stopped.
 
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TomsLeon

Active Member
Sep 26, 2020
42
3
Yes you can stay in D, the car will sort itself out and yes let go of the brake pedal until you need to move off. Just to note the brake lights will show on whilst it holds the brake for you to show other motorists you have stopped.
Oh, the reason I asked was to avoid dazzling drivers behind lol!

I do appreciate the safety aspect of keeping the brake lights on though. At least it saves some of the strain on your leg.
 

jt20vt

Active Member
Sep 17, 2010
127
17
Lurching when parking can be calmed slightly by turning off stop/ start and others have temporarily switched off auto hold to aid.
 
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Tonezz

Active Member
Jan 12, 2011
1,029
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Preston
That's interesting, when would you use N out of interest? I can't see any need for it as well as P if it's not to be used in traffic?

I don't have the car yet so don't have a handbook to check.
I presume its just for rolling the car without using the engine, maybe when its faulty or broken.
 
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Kirky

Copper Cupra Advocate
Apr 10, 2019
1,039
495
As others have said, the newer 7 speed is still a wet clutch and can handle a bit more torque, 430Nm vs 400Nm. They both happily handle 500Nm as the above limits are just soft limits set by the manufacturer. The 7 speed also has a much longer service schedule of 80000 miles compared to 40000.
So other than needing to service it more often and having higher motorway fuel usage they are pretty much the same. I believe the gear ratios from 1 to 6 are almost identical.
It's the first automatic I've ever owned and they are incredibly easy to drive. Love it and don't miss the manual at all.
 
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Tonezz

Active Member
Jan 12, 2011
1,029
65
Preston
As others have said, the newer 7 speed is still a wet clutch and can handle a bit more torque, 430Nm vs 400Nm. They both happily handle 500Nm as the above limits are just soft limits set by the manufacturer. The 7 speed also has a much longer service schedule of 80000 miles compared to 40000.
So other than needing to service it more often and having higher motorway fuel usage they are pretty much the same. I believe the gear ratios from 1 to 6 are almost identical.
It's the first automatic I've ever owned and they are incredibly easy to drive. Love it and don't miss the manual at all.
Do the cars with the 7 speed have that awful dead spot on the first 1/4 or more of the pedal?

Its the only thing I hate about it which kind of ruins the whole thing, I can't justify trying a pedal box yet though because I barely need to actually use my car. :happy:
 

Kirky

Copper Cupra Advocate
Apr 10, 2019
1,039
495
Do the cars with the 7 speed have that awful dead spot on the first 1/4 or more of the pedal?

Its the only thing I hate about it which kind of ruins the whole thing, I can't justify trying a pedal box yet though because I barely need to actually use my car. :happy:
Not on my Cupra it doesn't, it's incredibly sensitive. I can't comment on the FR and Xcellence with the 2.0 engine though. I only tend to use the very top of the travel when taking it easy, it soon gets into extremely quick acceleration with very little throttle travel used.
You can see how the pedal travel translates to throttle % on the virtual display. I'm rarely over 10% in normal use.
 

Tonezz

Active Member
Jan 12, 2011
1,029
65
Preston
Not on my Cupra it doesn't, it's incredibly sensitive. I can't comment on the FR and Xcellence with the 2.0 engine though. I only tend to use the very top of the travel when taking it easy, it soon gets into extremely quick acceleration with very little throttle travel used.
You can see how the pedal travel translates to throttle % on the virtual display. I'm rarely over 10% in normal use.
Even in Cupra mode my throttle has this dead spongy feel until you are quite far down, it just makes it really hard to modulate acceleration from standing. You have to just randomly judge it and see if it catapults you forward or not.

My MK2 FR had the same DQ250 DSG but didn't feel like this, but that had a different pedal and did'nt have all these other throttle settings.
 
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