Problems with Drive mode, is Sport the answer?
- Thread starter Baggie79
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The 'gearing' isn't changed - that would need a physical change to the gears. The car just holds on to each gear to higher revs before hanging up.
In my 1.4TSi FR I never use the Sport setting for the DSG. If I want a lower gear than that the DSG would select I use the paddles.
In
To document my own findings on this subject (still ongoing - for 310 VZ2 with DQ381)
There are a few factors that cause this lazy, sluggish behavior.
In my opinion 80% of the problem is to do with the DSG from my experimentation with engine settings.
Similar to the way I believe the ACC settings have integrated the old speed tolerance settings that used to be separate options. The following engine modes integrate both throttle mapping and DSG responsiveness, unhelpfully I might add.
Basically there are a couple of factors:
The throttle response curve.
The throttle response ramp speed (or smoothing amount).
The two gearbox modes: D and S - affecting several factors like; clutch engagement speed and economy features like coasting and start/stop.
I cannot speak about any hybrid drivetrains but expect even more factors involved, like engine switch off.
Anyway, just for the engine settings on the VZ2 310 then:
What the Gearbox settings do in brief:
Gearbox in D mode: Start/stop is enabled, low idle revs, shorter shifts, coasting is enabled, slower clutch engagement speed.
Gearbox in S mode: Start/stop is disabled, high idle revs, longer shifts, coasting is disabled, faster clutch engagement speed.
What I'd like to point out firstly - is that due to the amount of eco-functions enabled with the gearbox in D - just makes it more likely in general - to run into response issues, more of the time. E.g. in a worse case scenario; it's fairly understandable why the car won't accelerate in a condition where you have exponential throttle curve that is smoothed by slow ramp speed, at low revs, while the DSG is coasting... putting the gearbox in S avoids lot of these pitfalls.
Let's exclude all eco features though, why do I think the DSG is 80% of the problem? How much better is it - if we drive in Cupra engine mode, but put the gearbox in D. In short, not a lot! The real problem is DSG latency, caused by the dynamic gear control programme. Reducing the throttle smoothing or having a logarithmic curve in Cupra mode only helps so far that it's easier to exceed the thresholds set by the control programme within maybe 1 second of pushing the throttle while in D mode. It's more akin to avoiding the default economical behavior of the DSG in D rather than changing it's fundamental parameters, which S mode does do.
The fact is the DSG is governing the engine most of the time, not the other way round! It's even in-charge of limiting the engines output (for safety) if there is too much torque on the input shaft. You can test this by watching the power percent reduce while accelerating rapidly, the data is not hidden.
What if D behaved more like S mode - all the time - but with shorter shifting and still had all the eco features turned on? I believe only reprogramming the DSG can ultimately cure the latency issue and I hopefully look to solve this issue soon.
There are a few factors that cause this lazy, sluggish behavior.
In my opinion 80% of the problem is to do with the DSG from my experimentation with engine settings.
Similar to the way I believe the ACC settings have integrated the old speed tolerance settings that used to be separate options. The following engine modes integrate both throttle mapping and DSG responsiveness, unhelpfully I might add.
Basically there are a couple of factors:
The throttle response curve.
The throttle response ramp speed (or smoothing amount).
The two gearbox modes: D and S - affecting several factors like; clutch engagement speed and economy features like coasting and start/stop.
I cannot speak about any hybrid drivetrains but expect even more factors involved, like engine switch off.
Anyway, just for the engine settings on the VZ2 310 then:
- Eco - Exponential throttle curve and slow ramp speed (engages coasting every opportunity) Gearbox in D.
- Comfort - Exponential throttle curve and slow ramp speed (prediction based coasting based on how smoothly you remove your foot from the accelerator) Gearbox in D.
- Sport - Linear throttle curve and medium ramp speed (no coasting) Gearbox in S
- Cupra - Logarithmic throttle curve and medium ramp speed (no coasting) Gearbox in S
What the Gearbox settings do in brief:
Gearbox in D mode: Start/stop is enabled, low idle revs, shorter shifts, coasting is enabled, slower clutch engagement speed.
Gearbox in S mode: Start/stop is disabled, high idle revs, longer shifts, coasting is disabled, faster clutch engagement speed.
What I'd like to point out firstly - is that due to the amount of eco-functions enabled with the gearbox in D - just makes it more likely in general - to run into response issues, more of the time. E.g. in a worse case scenario; it's fairly understandable why the car won't accelerate in a condition where you have exponential throttle curve that is smoothed by slow ramp speed, at low revs, while the DSG is coasting... putting the gearbox in S avoids lot of these pitfalls.
Let's exclude all eco features though, why do I think the DSG is 80% of the problem? How much better is it - if we drive in Cupra engine mode, but put the gearbox in D. In short, not a lot! The real problem is DSG latency, caused by the dynamic gear control programme. Reducing the throttle smoothing or having a logarithmic curve in Cupra mode only helps so far that it's easier to exceed the thresholds set by the control programme within maybe 1 second of pushing the throttle while in D mode. It's more akin to avoiding the default economical behavior of the DSG in D rather than changing it's fundamental parameters, which S mode does do.
The fact is the DSG is governing the engine most of the time, not the other way round! It's even in-charge of limiting the engines output (for safety) if there is too much torque on the input shaft. You can test this by watching the power percent reduce while accelerating rapidly, the data is not hidden.
What if D behaved more like S mode - all the time - but with shorter shifting and still had all the eco features turned on? I believe only reprogramming the DSG can ultimately cure the latency issue and I hopefully look to solve this issue soon.
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My car does not coast when in Normal; only in Eco.
My car is set with steering & throttle in Sport & DSG in D.
My car is set with steering & throttle in Sport & DSG in D.
You can also get DTE Pedal Boxes, which allow you to customize the response of the throttle pedal.
I had one on my Mk 7.5 Golf R as the throttle lag made the car feel painfully slow. Pedalbox made a huge difference and transformed the car.
You can get them for the Formentor too, I will be investing in another one when I can spare the cash!
I had one on my Mk 7.5 Golf R as the throttle lag made the car feel painfully slow. Pedalbox made a huge difference and transformed the car.
You can get them for the Formentor too, I will be investing in another one when I can spare the cash!
My car in D mode does, although not as much as in my Polo. In my Polo as soon as I let go the gas pedal it mostly goes in to coasting mode, not all the time as it depends on the driving conditions but most times.
Another negative on the DSG responsiveness explained nicely by this carwow review I happen to have watched.
11m:14s - 11m:25s
For some reason it just loves to slip the clutch! This is the sort of thing that really needs to be programmed out. No wonder a lot of DSG tuning companies advertise reduce clutch wear with their software.
For some reason it just loves to slip the clutch! This is the sort of thing that really needs to be programmed out. No wonder a lot of DSG tuning companies advertise reduce clutch wear with their software.
Got the pedal box by DTE last week to see if any difference in responsivenes. Actually there is, especially when you first test it. What I don't like is that when I suddenly want to over pass or just to take off, in auto mode not in manual mode, and fully press the gas pedal there is almost always a noticeable kick down in the dsg box and I don't think in the long run this would end well. If you gradually press the pedal there is no such a sudden kick down and actually feels nice and progressive. All this in the sport and extra sport modes, which are the ones, especially the extra sport mode, where you can feel the lag in the gas pedal almost disappear in relation to factory setting. There is also an eco mode which better not to bother with, a factory setting which is just that, and the city setting which also eliminates the lag quite a bit especially in the low rpms. I noticed a slight increase in consumption so far but have to run a bit more to be sure. I will also compare it with the Sport and Cupra modes to see if actually makes any difference in responsiveness and consumption. Checking from the rpm counter it does not seem to increase the rpms at idle but if you cruise on factory mode and change it to city or sport mode you feel a slight increase in push and responsiveness and without any rpm increase, seems strange but I guess that's why it works. Still to also make sure if all is tuned properly, as I did it my self in a rush and not sure if I followed all steps correctly, although seems to work just fine.
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